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TOPIC TITLE: Pornography Addiction
Created On 5/2/06 10:07 AM
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gad
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5/27/07 3:23 AM
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You deserve alot of credit for 29 days.

Hope you manage to keep it going tomid.

Have a gut voch. Hope to hear good news.
 
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su7kids
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5/27/07 8:55 AM
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29 days is awesome.
I'm sure its tough, but you did it. you cn do it again!! Go for it!


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teen
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5/27/07 10:50 PM
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gad su7kids you dont know how much your words encouraged me.
i was just felt so down
this is what happened i didnt know what got into me i just did it without thinking i downloaded a porn game from the net ...
i couldn't get over it afterwards, i was so angry at everyone - why did it happen to me after working so hard and you know after shvuous and this is what i do, why? why?, im still very frustrated, i keep on thinking i wont be able to do it again whatever i dont know exactly what im gonna do.
what did i do wrong?
how do i know that i wont do it again?
i really dont get it because i really really dont want to do it so why do i do it????


Edited: 5/27/07 at 10:51 PM by teen
 
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su7kids
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5/28/07 2:42 AM
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Well, i don't know the answers, but make sure you delete it from your computer and give yourself a "fine" so that you know you need to learn not to do it again.

I am no expert but don't know if its helpful to focus on the WHY as much as it is good to focus on the "I'm not going to do it anymore, I'll find something else to do instead".

Good luck with it. Its more than luck, but you know what I mean. I wish you success with your efforts. Keep on doing what you were doing before, it worked for 29 days before, no reason to berlieve it won't work again!


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gad
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5/28/07 2:44 AM
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I think that it's important to look at what you accomplished, and not the opposite. Because looking at your accomplishment (and it was a tremendous accomplishment which required alot of effort and determination) will motivate and encourage you to go further and higher. Whereas looking at the slipup will depress you (as is quite obvious in your post) and make it much harder to succeed.

Thank you for the thank you. It's a big Mitzvah to thank people and make them feel good about their efforts, and that they are appreciated.

May you go from strength to strength and continue to have good news.
 
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kivunulo
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5/29/07 1:47 AM
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teen;
it is hard to stop i know exactly how you feel i can recount how many times this happened to me . let me tell you what helped me
the gemarah says reshaim yetzer harah shofton that means that when a person does a certain aveirah a lot of times it is almost impossible for them to stop because his evil inclination is so strong that it almost forces him to do the aveirah, it goes so far that the pri megadim asks why a person is punished after he did the aveirah a lot of times because it is almost immpossible to stop, (he answers beacuse geramah - that in truth the person is punished for the first aveirah but it depends how much aveiros the first aveirah caused).
even though shairai teshuvah lo ninalu - the gates of teshuva is not closed, habah letaher mesayin oso - if somebody comes to purify himself hashem helps him, pesach li kechido shel machat v'ani eftach lecha kepischo she ilum -[hashes syas] open for me a door as small as hole from a needle and i will enlarge it.
DONT GIVE UP!!! i can tell you in the end you find a way daven to hashem learn torah and beleive in hashem that he will help, never think that you yourself accomplished anything because it is imppossible for a person to win a malach only with hashems help.
chazal say "al taamin be'atmecha ad yom moschah" - "dont beleive in yourself till yor dying day", meaning you should never beleive you've already won the battle because then you will let your guard down and you might succumb to an urge.
in truth you are tzaadik (i already poste dthis somewhere but it wont hurt to say it again) the posuk says "sheva yipol tzadik v'kom"- the tzadik falls seven time and he stands up, that means even if you fall if you stand up you are a tzaadik everybody has nisyonos, even if you fall don't despair just pick yourself up and go on in the end the light will shine, be'ezras hashem. i have you in kind in my prayers. and hope you will be able to overcome your nisyonos i really admire you 29 days is something BIG!! hashem surely has nachas from you.
 
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gad
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5/29/07 9:22 PM
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Kivunulo says a very good point, that sometimes it's hardly the person's fault.

So you don't have to blame yourself. We don't always know why things happen. Maybe G-d wants to bring us to a higher level of Teshuva.

The main thing is to just focus on the mission, like a soldier in battle, and to forge ahead and try to achieve the most you can. And to daven and have bitochon that Hashem will help. And to realize that even at the time of the sin, "Hoiso beomno itoi," our belief in G-d is strong.

Hope to hear good and happy news, and may we soon merit the complete redemption.
 
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gad
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5/29/07 9:31 PM
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Also su7kids wrote good points, not to do it, and to find something else to do. Maybe to find interesting ways to put yourself more into learning.

And as for a fine, maybe you can decide to not use the computer for a number of days bli neder. (This may also fit in with what the Rambam writes, that when someone is at one extreme, they should aim to the other extreme, and that way they'll end up in the healthy middle.)
 
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kivunulo
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5/29/07 10:59 PM
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gad; thanks for summing up my post i was lways bad at bringing out my point
and teen hatlacha rabah to you, and all
 
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gad
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5/30/07 8:00 PM
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You're welcome. Thank you for posting the idea, which is very important and relevant.
 
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teen
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5/30/07 11:18 PM
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ok thank you all you'r really helping me ALOT. the sun is shining


Edited: 5/30/07 at 11:21 PM by teen
 
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shtarkebachur
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7/4/07 1:16 AM
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hi, i'm addicted to this. i am in therapy but i don't discuss this ever. but i hope i'll stop thinking i'm a bad person through therapy, because i know that is what i am thinking deep down every time i take a look at shmutz. i know that when i feel cared about and good, i am disgusted even to think about these things. but when i feel like a failure, i slide in. i feel helpless when i start to feel like a failure. i wish i could stop feeling this way.


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su7kids
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7/4/07 2:05 AM
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If you feel it is an addiction, talk to your therapist about it. Talk to him about "addictions" first and then be specific when he asks, and see if he can help you. Don't waste your and his time. Take advantage of it.


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shtarkebachur
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7/4/07 7:21 PM
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i'm really ashamed about it, and i don't trust my T enough to share this.


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su7kids
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7/4/07 7:59 PM
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I don't know, maybe others on the forum can answer, but can one discuss "addictions" in general without saying what the addiction is?


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gad
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7/5/07 1:06 AM
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su7kids, unless you explain the problem, I don't see how someone can help.

Shtarkebachur, I guess you need to either tell this therapist, or get a new therapist with whom you will be comfortable.

Often the Yetzer Hora tries to make us feel bad about ourselves, that all is hopeless etc. chas vesholom; and it's important to remember that this is a trick of the Yetzer Hora, and to remember that you are a precious Jewish child of G-d, and that eventually everyone will succeed in overcoming the Yetzer Hora and feeling close to Hashem Who is everywhere, and Who is close to us.
 
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shtarkebachur
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7/5/07 1:19 AM
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hi gad. thanx 4 the chizuk. you see, the reason i don't want to share it with my therapist is not just because i'm ashamed, it's also because i almost never do this-i mean this aveira. it's just sometimes when i feel like i'm a bad person that i feel i may as well do it, because i'll never be good anyway no matter how hard i try. but most of the time , 99% of the times i have this nisayon, i overcome it. it didn't used to be that way, but i've worked on believing in myself and most of the time i resist. actually, most of the time i don't even feel a struggle, so i'm afraid of discussing this with him because maybe then he'll not understand and he'll think i'm addicted, and then i'll begin to think that about myself since he thinks so, and i'll feel like i'm a totally bad person.


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Edited: 7/5/07 at 1:21 AM by shtarkebachur
 
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su7kids
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7/5/07 1:35 AM
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Shtarkebachur, didn't you use the word "addicted" earlier? It sounds as if you are NOT addicted, and you need to accept that a slip here and there doesn't make you completely BAD. Its a SLIP and its something you can work on. Find something else to do, or tell yourself that you're worth more than that. I think you can do it, because it doesn't sound like a BIG time consuming thing in your life.

You're not a totally bad person. Count how many times you control yourself from going to porn websites and that is major!


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shtarkebachur
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7/5/07 2:34 AM
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actually i never go to a porn website but i look at bad things sometimes. i was never really sure if i was addicted or i'm just a normal boy. i never discussed this with anyone, period, until now. i still sometimes think i'm addicted and that i don't even want to change because i'm really a bad person. but i like when you reassure me that i'm not addicted, it makes me feel more normal.


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Edited: 7/5/07 at 2:37 AM by shtarkebachur
 
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su7kids
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7/5/07 2:42 AM
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I'm not a guy, so I can't tell you if its normal or not, or what is considered normal. But it certainly sounds like NORMAL curiosity to me.


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shtarkebachur
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7/5/07 2:54 AM
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i hear.


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gad
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7/6/07 12:38 AM
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As Su7kids says, "sometimes" does not sound like an addiction.

It's normal to have a yetzer hora. It's normal to try to conquer the yetzer hora. But the yetzer hora is not conquered in a day. It's an ongoing struggle.
You write that you are 99% able to overcome the test. This means that you are giving G-d lots of nachas, because every time you overcome the yetzer hora you are doing a Mitzva, and this gives Hashem tremendous pleasure.

You are not a bad person. Period. You have a neshomo, a part of G-d, and that is your essence, and that is completely good.
Doing something bad doesn't change our essence. It remains pure and holy and faithful to G-d. And when we do tehuva, we return and get in touch with our soul, with our true self, and this gives us the strength to carry on and do more good things.

Have a good Shabbos, and I hope to hear good news from you.

 
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shtarkebachur
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7/6/07 2:31 AM
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i feel so much better. i'm surprised how much your support is doing to strengthen me, especially since i can't even see you.
please continue to give me your support, i still need it.
i think i know this deep down, that i'm really good, but i don't usually feel it. hearing it from you does make me feel a lot better.

BTW, please describe the expression you would have on your face if you'd be talking to me face to face. for example, let's say you were telling me, "Doing something bad doesn't change our essence. It remains pure and holy and faithful to G-d." so you'd probably have solemn look on you're face. or maybe a crooked grin, like the picture of you. i really have no idea. so at that point, you might write, in parentheses, WINK. OR, . i'd really feel like you're actually talking to me if you'd describe the facial expression.

actually, i think written letters help me more than if you would be talking to me, because this way i can read it again whenever i need to, even when you aren't here. and this way i won't have to bother you to repeat yourself.

on the other hand, i feel a lot more cared about if i keep getting new letters than if you just make your point and finished. when i see a new post, i get this warm feeling. and it doesn't matter what you're saying as long as i feel that you're writing to give me support that comes from your caring .

i need to hear that i'm not bothering you. i'm constantly worrying that i'm too much of a burden on you. when i see that you're not writing, i start worrying that you lost patience with me and you gave up on me .(BTW, do u think that's normal to worry about?)








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Edited: 7/6/07 at 2:46 AM by shtarkebachur
 
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su7kids
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7/6/07 11:09 AM
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I'm glad my writing is helping you. I hope it is helping others here, too. Maybe? Even a little bit?

I think you're kinda cute that you want me to describe how I look when I 'm "talking" to you, because when I'm typing, I don't make facial expressions, I'm concentrating on what I'm writing!

I'm a Mommy of now 7 older children and a Bubby of 1, and I care a lot about people. I believe that everyone has good in them, and if they want it to "show" it can, if the desire is strong enough.

I have always felt the pull to "work with" someone who is willing to work with themselves. I kinda get sad with people who just whine when they ask for advice and don't at least try to listen. I don't mean that you have to FOLLOW what I say, but if a person comes back with a reasonable discussion about what I said was not right for them, then I see at least they thought it through.

I believe strongly that if one has a desire to change and puts in the effort it can happen. I have seen it in myself. I don't mean changing from BAD things only, I mean any kind of change. I changed my way of dealing with people a LOT over the years, so I know it can be done.

I had a mother who loved me with all she had, but she was very negative, because she wanted me to be better, so it all came to me in the form of "criticism" which I still am quite sensitive to. But I worked on myself, and I am now grateful that she was my mother (Her Yartzeit is tonight) because I became the person I am today, thanks to how she raised me.

It was hard work, but I'm so glad I did it. I know you, Shtark, can do it, too!! I know the day will come when you will look back on this time of your life and say "Wow, that was me? How much I've grown. I'm so glad I worked on myself and am a stronger person today because of it!" You will be very proud of yourself, I know it. I believe it.


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shtarkebachur
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i promise i'm working on integrating your wisdom into my life, and you'll be happy to hear you're being a TREMENDOUS help 2 me, like nobody ever b4 u. chas veshalom, i'm not just whining for attention (even though that's part of it, i do like knowing that someone cares enough about me to respond to me), but i absolutely want to change myself. (especially the part of me that tells me i must change myself). i want to become a person who sees people as good, i don't want to be mistrustful. it's so lonely for me the way i am now. i can't open up to anyone, because i'm so sure they'll hurt me by telling me i'm no good.

i KNOW there are people who are not like that, who sincerely care about me, but whenever they say something that feels like criticism, i clam up and i feel tense around them,(thinking that they don't REALLY care, they're just great actors) then they become tense with me, then i become even more tense. so i never end up having the relationships i want with the people who can give me what i need.

even though with you i never really feel criticized and even when i do s/times, you know how to make me feel better, even with you i'm too scared to just relax and trust you not to hurt me. i keep comparing you to my mom who is always telling me that she cares about me, look at all i do for you,etc. but then in the same breath, literally, she totally disregards my feelings and tells me i'm no good.

i'm so used to that, that i need to conciously diffrentiate to myself between you and my mother, that you care how i feel but my mother can't do that even though she cares about me as best as she could because she loves me TO THE EXTENT THAT SHE CAN, which feels more like manipulation to me than love, since she does try to manipulate me by saying how she loves me.

and even when i do realize there's a difference between your caring and my mother's, i still can't trust that you are not like her, since what your'e doing, showing caring, is very similar to my mother's control tactics, so i still expect that the chances of you suddenly rejecting me are really high.

in fact i can't imagine having a relationship with someone where i can just feel safe,accepted and loved for being who i am. i don't have a picture in my hed of a relationship where the person DOESN'T hurt me.

that's why i say that i need you to keep writing to me even if i'm not responding, because everytime i read a letter from you, it gives me a stronger belief that it's possible 4 someone to just love me, w/o the hurting (which to me seems to be a part of every loving relationship, whatever LOVE means).it makes the new picture in my head much more real.

i want to get married, but it's not worth the inevitable hurt that comes with "love". but i really do want to have a really close loving relationship, so i want to get married. so i know i will do what ever it takes to change the way i see relationships, so i can get married. until i do, i know i will never be happy to get married. believe me that i'm working on it.

so your letters a a major part in my quest, even when they're not in response to a/t. you are the new picture forming in my head, and it needs aLOT of reinforcement.(at least 19 years worth b4 it outweighs my mom-though now it'll go faster since i'm willingly helping it along, so it may take less than 19 years.)


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Edited: 7/9/07 at 8:33 PM by shtarkebachur
 
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su7kids
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I hope you understand that with MY humility I feel you have put a big burden on me!! However, if I can help in some small way, then I shall continue to do so. If reassurance is what you need, I hope I can help.

I don't know you yet, I am getting to know you. Im' not "attached" like your mother is, and I am not your mother, I am "a" mother, and I can feel and see and perceive your pain, and it hurts me that you hurt so much. I hope that you didn't see that as "not caring" or "criticizing" because its not meant to be, its an explanation.

It appears to me that you have put a tremendous amount of thought into what is going into your life and you KNOW what you need, and I think that is very commendable. It is NOT easy to think so deeply ever, and at 19 it is BIG!! Good for you!

I think I can try to explain that there will always be someone who is going to "hurt" you, although it is not their intention, because sometimes you may be having an "off" day and the person will say something that just doesn't sound right in your head. What you can do with that, when it happens, is just realize "hey, they didn't mean that. That's not the "norm" for them, so I won't take it personally."

Also, in my experience, it takes a lot of GIVING to receive the kind of love and acceptance that you want, especially in a marriage and friendship relationship. [I think I'm going to step aside from discussing your relationship with your mother which is quite different from a friend or a spouse, and I'm not saying this is how to fix your relationship with your mother because she clearly has HER work to do on that, too].

Of course, at 19 you're not ready for marriage yet, but the fact that you are aware of what kind of relationship you want, and are working on yourself so that you can get that kind of relationship, I have no doubt in my mind that you will achieve it.

I don't know your background, to know whether you will meet your Bashert through a shidduch or through "regular" dating, or if you will have someone help you find her, but I do know that when you are ready, you will know the kinds of questions to ask, and you will be very clued in to what it is you want, and I have no doubt, you'll find it.

You have a few years to get "healthy" in your trust and believe that such a relationship will happen, and in that time, your mindset will change, if you give those of us who care [for no good reason, other than we just DO] a chance, and see that it can happen.

Even though I said I wouldn't, let me just go back to your mother for a moment, and say, that like mine, yours is doing the best she can with the tools she's got, and the tools are not the right ones, but she is doing her best. She probably didn't have the privilege you're getting now of a therapist to help her and a source, like the internet, to reach out and touch someone who cares about her. She probably never had that in her life, so she's only doing what she knows to be right. Its not working for you, but she IS doing the best she can.

You can't change HER, but you can change YOU, and I think you're well on your way to doing that, and its great.

Internet hugs!
S


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gad
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7/8/07 1:51 PM
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Shtarkebochur, thank you for your post about how our posts are helping a lot. You made me feel very good. And although I'm not too good with the computer faces, but just to let you know that you put a big smile on my face and my heart.

Su7kids is really saying everything well, so I don't need to add to it. Just to tell you that I admire you and your determination, and I'm confident that you will do lots of good things.

I hope to continue to hear good news.
 
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shtarkebachur
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oh shoot i just typed a long thing and i lost it. going 2 bed now.
gad, u really do help me so please continue 2 write,4 1 thing u say gr8 things, AND it's your support that helps me so it does'nt matter if ur writing s/t new.

thank u so much Mrs. kids, i'm feeling strong now.


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su7kids
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YAY, I'm thrilled you're feeling strong. Sorry you lost your long post! I was wondering how you were doing today.

Are you in Yeshiva now, in the summer? Do you go 6 days a week?

Sleep tite


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shtarkebachur
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i'm in yeshiva till the end of this week. 2day, i was visiting my bros in camp. i sat next 2 mom the entire trip, and i kept on thinking of your words, and i found that at times i was able to respond 2 her calmly, thinking that i like who i am, and if she don't see who i am, it does'nt change who i am. and i reall felt so much calmer and happier than i usually do when she's around.


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su7kids
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oh, you're awesome!!! I'm so glad you had that experience with your mother, that will make life so much easier for YOU!! Good going, Shtarke!


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shtarkebachur
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earlier u said, Im' not "attached" like your mother is. what did you mean & why did u say it?

your answer will hopefully clear the confusion i felt all day trying 2 u/s. that whole paragraph.

i know what u mean about people hurting me in every relationship. i need to start to feel that people don't mean i'm bad when they are mad. at least people like you. i don't want that when my wife gets mad at me i should think she's gonna drop me unless i appease her.


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su7kids
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I believe what I meant is, I'm not "part of you" like your mother is, I'm like a stranger out there. I think we all have very strong expectations of our parents, and since I'm not your parent, I don't really fall under that same expectation. Does that make sense?


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shtarkebachur
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i see your point. but i was SURE u meant that you don't need me to make you happy (like mom), so i was trying 2 see where i was doing that in order 2 change it.

i'm feeling criticized. it sounds like you're berating me for expecting so much from you. besides i'm not sure which expectations you're referring to.

i get the feeling that you aren't being clear about what you mean because you are afraid i'll feel criticized. i u/s that fear, but i feel like i'm gasping for air trying 2 figger out what u mean.


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su7kids
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7/10/07 2:35 AM
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no, not berating you in the slightest. Not criticizing at all. Just feeling very humbled! I feel flattered that you hold my opinion in such high regard, and it makes me nervous. I guess the toughest thing about TYPING as opposed to SPEAKING is that you don't get the tone of voice, and even those emoticons don't quite say it right.

I thank you for holding me in such high esteem! When I criticize, you'll know it! I am not a person who likes to beat around the bush, I get straight to the point, so don't worry. I understand why you do, though. You're not used to a relationship with someone who isn't critical. I'm not critical. I am looking for, and finding, with no difficulty, the good points in you.

I hope that's clearer.



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shtarkebachur
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7/10/07 3:12 AM
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manoMAN, i'm trying to reply & my mom is just hanging around me talking about nonsense!! she's finding any excuse to hang around, and i'm getting so nervous b/c i don't want her to know what i'm writing!! by now she left (:beer but she's still bustling around upstairs. she told me that r' matisyahu solomon said u shouldn't leave kids around the computer alone. i'm glad she doesn't have the guts to tell me i can't use the computer, b/c THEN what would i do??? she's probably overwhelmed with guilt feelings that she's not following r' matisyahu's ruling, & trying 2 deal with it by not going 2 sleep until i do.
(long break now 4 an argument w/ mom who popped downstairs, tells me i have an internet addiction- i guess the way she treats that is by standing around and being as annoying as humanly possible). wow, i just totally got her off my back. u wanna hear? every time she said another reason why it doesn't make sense for me to b on internet so long, i did not respond to her argument, i just told her i can't finish as long as she's around. it worked eventually. just giving u the latest.

finding it hard to think w/ mom pressuring, so g'nite!!


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shtarkebachur
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7/10/07 10:48 AM
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i had a pretty sharp argument with my mom, and she's hurt. i felt so tense afterward. (not only during). i feel bad about it but i had to do it so i can finish writing 2 u last night.

[btw, i do value your opinion very much. i can see that you have a lot to offer me.]


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su7kids
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7/10/07 10:52 AM
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Are you up for apologizing to your mother for the argument? It may make you feel better.

Usually, when I get into an argument or disagreement with someone over something that I believe in, but feel bad because I didn't come across well, I apologize for my tone of voice, or my argumentativeness, or shouting so loud or something, but NOT for the point I was making, because I think I'm still right. It gives the other person what they want, gives you peace of mind that you tried to make it better, but yet you're still sticking to your guns!


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shtarkebachur
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7/10/07 10:57 AM
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that might help, even though i don't think she'll stop being mad at me & i think she'll try 2 continue the argument, and that makes me very nervous.
but it may help 2 make me feel better, just knowing that i did what's right even though i'm mad at her for not thinking there was a/t wrong w/ the way SHE spoke 2 ME.


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shtarkebachur
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7/10/07 11:41 PM
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update:
i told mom i'm sorry i spoke not so nicely 2 u when we had that argument.
she was so touched that she was saying that she had noticed how i was trying 2 not get annoyed w/ her, and she thanked me 4 saying it. now, 13 hours later, she tells me what i said made her feel good all day.

i'm happy i did that b/c i know i did what's right.

i wish she would apologize 4 what she said. She was being nasty and critical and controlling, and she doesn't think there was a/t wrong w/ it, she thinks it was justified. she's just thanking me 4 what i told her, and she seems 2 want to repair our relationship like that. she'll probably expect me to feel close to her now that she thanked me.

it's like trying to put a band-aid on an infected wound. if you don't take care of the infection underneath, it won't heal even if you put on all the band-aids in the world. if she doesn't take care of the hurt she caused me, all the compliments,thanks and praise in the world will have no effect.

it's sad that she really wants to have a good relationship w/ me but she has absolutely no idea how. she's putting band-aids on infected wounds. she still has that need 4 control, so she will not concede that she was wrong. she'll thank me for my kind words and expect me 2 4get that she ever hurt me.

i'm still just as mad at her as b4, but she expects me not 2 b. (this IS my perception, and it's true). if i would express my anger 2 her she would say/convey that i'm an evil person if i can be angry at her 4 so long. i remember her telling me once, "WHAT!! you're still angry about that?! that was 2 weeks ago! (or 10 years)" as if passage of time makes infected wounds heal on their own. she meant it's MY responsibility 2 4give her. There exists no such concept in her mind of MOMMY saying she's sorry. MOMMY is never wrong. if Shtark (lol!!!) is mad at MOMMY, then s/t must b wrong w/ S that he can't 4give her. i must b crazy if i'm still angry about what she did to me 10 years ago. besides, what kind of evil person do i have 2 b 2 not 4give her?!!

i hope that's clear enough 4 u. (not mad at u)


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su7kids
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7/11/07 12:33 AM
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Yes, very clear. And I'm very glad that you did apologize. Even though you expect her to apologize, she won't, and now your "work" is to accept that. It will take time, but you did the right thing, and I'm proud of you for doing that.

Remember, she's not the one who is going to change, you are working on YOU, not HER! And you can do it!!! [I see if I hit quick reply I can't use emoticons, oh well!]

Shtark, remember, she has no motivation to change. You do, and you are the "right" one here. You just do the right thing, and be proud of yourself. You only have control over yourself, not her.

The anger is hurting YOU , not her, so lets work on lowering that.

You're doing it, you're making great progress, and you can be very proud of yourself1


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shtarkebachur
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7/11/07 10:16 AM
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i just want to point out something you realize, that you are challenging my beliefs about relationships, like when you said that it takes a lot of GIVING to receive the kind of love and acceptance that i want, especially in a marriage and friendship relationship. it's confusing for me to hear you say that and hear you say that you don't mean to criticize me. to me this kind of thing is something i would expect people to criticize me for, like, what i am i thinking, how dare i expect someone to love me without me giving to them first.

i heard you say that you are just explaining, not criticizing, but i wish you could somehow make it more clear FOR ME that you are'nt criticizing. i still feel very defensive and i feel like resisting your advice, as a way of defending myself from you.

but i want to say i really appreciate you trying so hard to reassure me that you aren't criticizing, even though i'm not yet at the point where i can believe you deep down.


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su7kids
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7/11/07 11:11 AM
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So, Shtarke, the issue is with you, not me! You just have to learn to trust me! (Oy, so much easier said than done, right!! )

Not only hve you had a tough experience growing up, you're also young, and you will learn, because you head is in the right place!!!


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Edited: 7/11/07 at 11:12 AM by su7kids
 
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shtarkebachur
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7/11/07 9:01 PM
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meanwhile though i'm feeling frustrated, i wanna just start trusting you already. i guess i should just endorse my progress though.


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su7kids
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7/11/07 9:08 PM
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Trust is choice, too! So, off you go! Trust me!

I can't make that happen for you, that's totally up to you!


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shtarkebachur
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7/11/07 9:42 PM
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i guess you can't make me trust you. the question is if i can.


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gad
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7/11/07 11:04 PM
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If you are 19 and in therapy, you have a lot going for you. People in therapy often gain tremendously in areas of understanding themselves and others, and are often able to be sensitivie with others and help them.

You already show alot of this in the way that you are in touch with your own feelings and others', and that you are not afraid to express this.

So in many ways you should consider yourself lucky that you have this advantage; something that many people do not have.
 
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gad
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When it comes to views about marriage, life , relationships etc, I think you'll find that as time moves on, many of your views will change and/or become more fine tuned; and as you gain experience with relationships, marriage, kids, etc. you will no doubt learn from your experiences.

Su7kids gave you very good guidance in dealing with your mother on this occasion, and I'm sure that with time you will learn more techniques how to cope better.

There is a classical book call Duties of the Heart (Chovivei Halivovois) which discusses many of these issues. And the main point seems to be, that by trusting in Hashem, and realizing that everything is bashert and no one can do anything to you unless Hashem wants, then it follows that our relationship with others can be very peaceful.
 
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shtarkebachur
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7/12/07 1:42 AM
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i guess trusting in hashem is also something to work on, then.


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shtarkebachur
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7/12/07 1:51 AM
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HEY, SORRY GUYS! i'm not sure how this happened, but the last thing i remember i this huge round thingy landing right in front of me! it had huge lights, and... sorry, gotta go, i just got a glooger from Gleep.


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