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TOPIC TITLE: Pornography Addiction
Created On 5/2/06 10:07 AM
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ringeddavid
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10/14/07 9:43 AM
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First to address su7, what's driving me to fix this is that I'm sick of living a lie and being a bad person, I don't think I will loose my family on the current staus of my sit. Because I'm always careful to be sure I don't get busted, its sick and sad but that's all part of why I wanna get ride of this, I always wanted to stop for years! Really I've really tried to. I just wouldn't want to go to therapy because I wouldn't want to risk it, and other than that what could I do? Except keep on fighting, so I did, but I never really won. Meaning I never kicked it for good, so I chanced on this website and thank G-d I'm making some head way even though I can't predict if it'll help. So to answer your last Q my goal is to kick it and all the other problems I have associated with it
 
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ringeddavid
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10/14/07 2:11 PM
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shtarker, thanks for thr vote of confidence. I do a lot of thinking and sometime too much, but hey i'm willing to try anything now, this guy i spoke to on the phone said from rabbi twersky in reference to an addiction. one will not reach for help till he has reached to bottom of the bottom, which i do feel like i have in a way, yet i question myself did i really huit bottom to only go up? and whats worse to think about is once i pick up and G-d forbid fall thats really gonna hurt and damage the way i heal. I'm a bit scared of that, and in a way deep down i wanna hold back for helping myself so that i dont get hurt more. if thats possible to make any sense.
 
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su7kids
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10/14/07 4:07 PM
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Ringeddavid, every step forward is a good thing.

How much lower do you want to fall before you decide it's bottom? Do you want to have your wife find out and then really have a mess on your hands?

I think you can decide for yourself what your bottom is.

Reaching out for help is a major step forward, and it may take you time to put all your tools in order, but when you do..... you'll fly!!!


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Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/14/07 4:17 PM
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If i understood you correctly, you are afraid to start getting help because you might fall again. It would be more painful for you to fall after starting to heal, right? it would feel like you failed again, and it hurts more to fail, so you'd rather not try. You don't want to risk failing, it's too painful. So you don't want to get help since you might fail.

If that is what you meant, I have that problem when it comes to learning. i want to learn a lot, and become a huge talmid chacham. But when i start to learn I'm afraid to really try, because if I do, and I end up not succeeding, I'll feel horrible. So I'd rather not try. This way, I won't feel like a failure. I will stay an am ha'aretz, but at least i won't feel the pain of failure.

So I know it's a valid feeling, and it makes sense to feel that way. You'll end up possibly destroying your life, but at least you are not risking the pain of failure.

That means you are really scared of failure. Your fear is so strong that you can't even think straight. Do you agree?






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ringeddavid
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10/14/07 9:23 PM
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well i see both of your points, bottom was hit, and pretty bad even though on the bad scale i still had more to go, i feel like my bottom was hit and not that i chose it, it was something that came about.

concerning my fears, i didnt and dont intend t follow through with these "fears", tthe exsist but they are not controling.

I would like to hear some ideas and info on how to look at this problem in another light and try to gain control, i dont want to dance around it any more i kind of need a tactic to attack it that i havent used. I'm not saying that that is the only way i think it could get done i just need another way, other than the typical way of dealing with the yeter hara
 
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gad
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10/14/07 10:22 PM
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Wow. The emotions, the honesty, the caring, and the deep and perceptive thinking that has been expressed here by all of you is amazing. As Dr. Lynn has written recently, this is what a message board is all about.

The Ahavas Yisroel shines brightly.

I know that the following observation pales in comparison, but I just wanted to comment on what Shtarkebachur and Ringeddavid wrote about being afraid to try (with learning and other things) because it may lead to failure. One possible answer is, that even if failure does chas vesholom happen, but the times that you did learn, and the times when you avoided doing something wrong, those efforts and accomplishments are priceless and eternal Mitzvos, and they are very precious to Hashem.
 
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kivunulo
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10/14/07 10:59 PM
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ringeddavid; if i understand correctly u think that you can find an easy way out - a new eitzah, let me tell you the brute fact ill be honest with you, i really really dont beleive that it is possible, it is hard work.
all the segilos and eitzos i wrote are just things that help you, but they r nothing worth unless you really want to stop and do teshuvah, without teshuvah nothing works, i know you are going to tell me you did that 100 times or maybe 1000 or more, (no surprises there i think i can match these numbers), you seem to think that if it did not work before that means it just does not work for you, if that is the case then you are wrong, hashem commanded us to make yom kipur once every year even though you did teshuvah last year.
i will translate three paragraphs from sefer teharos hakodesh (mamer teshuvah behisbonenus perek 3): "if a person does teshuvah (- he really does not want to sin again), even if after that he sins he is like an oines before hashem and his teshuvah - that made a big impact in shomayim is not nullififed, because hashem knows that in truth he really does not want to sin, it is only because his yetzer horah is so strong that is why he sinned.
and a person has to make sure that he does not fall in his own eyes because he sinned again chas vesholom, he should do teshuvah again and again without an amount of times, because in the end HE WILL WIN AND NOT LOSE, and even if he chas veshulam will not win by overcoming his yetzer horah he is still a winner because all the times he did teshuvah will connect together to big gigantic number and in this merit he will have a VERY easy tikun after he leaves this world.
so give it another try with hashems help this one will be the one.
and shtarke; "ein hakodosh boruch hu moneh hadafem elah hashaos".
may we all be zoche to a speedy teshuvah bs"d.
 
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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 9:03 AM
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GAd, how are you?

thanks for the support but theres plenty of work to go.

Kivinulo, u did not understand correctly, i believes you made that as an assumption. I am trying hard i have tried hard, the reason i am hear is because i've tried in so may ways to help myself but its just not working. I always believed that if someone tries hard enough at somethng he will prevail, and thats the normal way for things to be. I thought i was normal, as apposed to have an adiction, I dont know forsure if i have an addiction but from what i understand recently i may and i wanna fix it. I STILL BELIEVE that if i work @ this more and harder i will prevail. like i have been asking this forum a few times I NEED NEW IDEAS ON HOW TO BEAT THIS ANIMAL I CANT DO IT WITH THE TOOLS I HAVE NOW AND BY MYSELF DOES ANYONE, SOMEBODY HAVE A DIFFERENT IDEA HOW TO BEAT THIS!!!???!?!?!? I've tried the normal ways to beat the yetzer its not working, i sont know if im too far in this or if im different or if my yetzer is too strong I DON"T KNOW!!! ALL I KNOW IS I NEED SOME IDEAS FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE READING THIS AND CARE FOR OTHERS AND WANT TO LEND A HELPING HAND.

MAy HAshem bless all of you and send you all Brocha in many ways. PLease someone come up with something
 
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kivunulo
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10/15/07 10:36 AM
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yes it was an assumption, but what im trying to say is it wont hurt to dry the old way some more, and there is no such thing as falling to far, and i think u r normal.
i posted be4 "and even if he chas veshulam will not win by overcoming his yetzer horah..." it is possible 4 some1 not to win even if he tries very hard (see sefer mei hasheloach parshas pinchas). but its very uncommon. in any case u have to keep on doing over and over the same things again and again - start over and try one more time and ask hashem to help u to stop. maybe this time it will work. dont forget moshe rabeinu davened keminyan vueschanan.
 
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su7kids
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10/15/07 1:40 PM
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Ringeddavid, I thought of something you could do. But I don't know if your problem is only computer/internet related. If it is, post a picture of your wife on the corner of your monitor and it will remind you of why you're trying to stop, and also, hopefully help you to realize that she is your REASON for trying to stop.


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shtarkebachur
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10/15/07 3:14 PM
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Just to tell you how it went with me;

I tried a million things to stop. I learned chassidus, i felt inspired by it. It did not last for long, and i felt even worse seeing that it doesn't help. I kept on trying to inspire myself enough, but it was not the thing.

I read self-help books, and i thought they'd teach me how to control myself, and i tried to change the way i think, but it was not working. i was frantic to find a way to do it that doesn't involve talking to a person about it.

in the end what helped me was realizing, with the help of a therpist or two, that i was putting myself down and telling myself i am no good. i had to admit that i aws doing this, and decide to work on changing that, since i really am a good person.

so are you. i don't know why you think you are a bad person, but you are not. look at the good you do, and look how hard you fight your yetzer hora.



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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 3:15 PM
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Unfortunatly it not only internet related it has gone much futher besides my computer is not a problem, because as i told you guys on my house and my laptop i installed k9 web protect, and i share the password with my wife. but good thinking there i do appreciate you trying and hope you try more for me.

can any one else come up with something too?
 
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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 3:19 PM
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thanks shtarker i'll give that some thought. to tell u the truth i used to put myself down really bad but i recently stop not knowing wh but that doesnt give me the right to call myself a good person thats something i cant go past
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/15/07 3:20 PM
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btw, iv'e found that this is a great website for anyone who knows he wants to change but he needs support from others to give him strength along the way.


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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 3:21 PM
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what is it?
 
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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 3:23 PM
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sorry i thought u said u found one not that you foud that ithis one is..... it is a great one indeed
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/15/07 3:28 PM
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when i first began posting here, i was in middle of therapy, and i was full of anger at my therapist because it seemed he was out to hurt me, but the people here helped me see that he was trying to help me, and that changed the way i looked at therapy,. that is how i was able to allow my therapist to help me.

how is it helping you?

also, it helped me just knowing that people can care about someone like me, and i am not a total weirdo.


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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 3:31 PM
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well I only spoke to him once and I am to speak again. I pretty much told him everything about myself thats related to my problem adn it really felt good to let it all out and tell someone. although it hasn't made me batter i feel different now that i got it off my chest. how did you feel when you finally told you therapist about you porn problem?
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/15/07 3:37 PM
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i never told him about that. i only spoke about the way my parents are treating me, and have treated me. but i guess it would have been easier if i would have told him about the porn problem, i just did not have the courage. it's impressive that you told him, and you might have an easier time than i ever did witht therapy, since you were open about what's really bothering YOU. let me know how it goes, i'm really interested to hear how much progress you're making, and at what rate. it took me a long time to feel like i am making progress. just trust your therapist that he's there to help you and that'll make it easier for you to accept the help. mistrust is the main thing that stopped me from allowing my therapist to help me.

i just edited, so it might be easier to read now


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Edited: 10/15/07 at 3:39 PM by shtarkebachur
 
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su7kids
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10/15/07 4:00 PM
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Quote

Originally posted by: ringeddavid
Unfortunatly it not only internet related it has gone much futher besides my computer is not a problem, because as i told you guys on my house and my laptop i installed k9 web protect, and i share the password with my wife. but good thinking there i do appreciate you trying and hope you try more for me.

can any one else come up with something too?




You're not a bad person. You are a good person who has a habit that needs to be eliminated.

Habits take about 3 weeks to get established and 3 weeks to get out of the system. Of course this is more than just a "habit" but it doesn't define who you are. It is something YOU DO, as opposed to WHO YOU ARE!


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Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 4:04 PM
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i guess part of the trust is that 1) he was recommended by the administrator of this forum and 2) more importantly he has no clue who i am so i have nothing to loose by telling the truth (and alot of $) but its worth it
 
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ringeddavid
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10/15/07 7:36 PM
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su7 is that really true 3weeks and three weeks? is taht only for a habit but not an addiction or both?

i can take that on two levels one the nonspiritual, what make a criminal? what makes a ganev? what makes a talmid chochom? these are descriptions of who a person is, IDENTIFIED by his actions, bottom line a person is identified by there actions even though technically its not true.
on a spiritual level a neshoma is a part of hashem wwe rin it and toture it so if we are our neshoma our actions should have nothing to do with us, but that doesnt make sense. you have to say we are both guf with neshomah, now lets look at our guf, mine at least doe svery bad things so where in the middle does "ME" get defined.

although you all are appreciated i would like to thank su7 for sticking around a womens perspectve is helpful when dealing with a "guys" thing. thank you

and thanks to everyone kivinulo, gad and shtarker
 
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su7kids
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10/15/07 8:47 PM
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ringeddavid, its kind of like when someone has a disease. You can say "This is the cancer patient" or "this is the gentleman who has cancer". Either you are a person who has something, or you are that something.

My choice is to define you by your Yertzer TOV rather than by your Yetzer HaRAH!! This is just one part of you, the Yetzer Harah that is winning AT TIMES. I am not going to define you by your actions, because there is a large part of you that wants to do different, and when you let that part run the show, THAT will be your dominant part.

Does that make sense?


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ringeddavid
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10/16/07 12:26 AM
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Thats true and i see what you are saying but the natural tendancy of person in this issue is to follow what he usually does, as it is said about the Chofezt Chaim he was the King of controling his mouth regarding loshon hora yet they say he never stopped talking why? cuz he knew who he was and there by put it into action, this is a tiefa vort but try to follow it, it makes sense. People will believe what they are, so long as what they do fits thats critireia/profile as a result NOT the cause. Meaning if a guy in yeshiva is held to be a baal chesed and he does chesed, he will see himself being a baal chesed and thereby act on it to do chesed. we act acordingly to what we hold ourselves to be. this is The term "past nisht" meaning, for me (the way i see myself because of the way i usually act ) doing this act is a past nisht.

so whenn someone does things wrong often enough for it to change the result of self image, how can i tell myself i am good yet these actions are bad which are not really me. I'm not trying to find holes if what you are saying im just telling you what goes through my mind when i tried telling that to myself.
Although self glorification is always an easy thing to do and come by that the most used yetzer, but when it comes down to making a difference, its only a yetzer, and the yetzer that tells me i'm a sinner always has the louder voice.
but to be honest since i've approached this forum a few days ago i deffinetly feel better in a few ways, the support the sharing and of coarse passing around of ideas, which we cant get enough of. B"H its been a week in a few hours drom now since my last episode and i want to keep it going. so please stay with me here, and if we can get more people to participate it would really help
 
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su7kids
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10/16/07 12:34 AM
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Ringed, I think its important for you to focus on that week, and be proud of yourself, not in a ga'ava'dike way, but just in a "mmmm, I did it for a week, maybe I can make it two weeks" sort of way.

Its kind of like feeding yourself positive thoughts, because that's the part of you that will grow. Whatever thoughts you give "energy" to, those will grow.


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teen
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10/16/07 12:39 AM
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ringed; i really dont know what to say what was already not said maybe saying the words lo sosiri achrei levavchem v'achrai eineichem will help you i learned somewhere that it helps but u have to actually say it.
and i feel really bad for you, i keep u in mind in my prayers.
 
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shtarkebachur
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i understand what you are saying that the voice telling you you are a sinner is much louder. and naturally it is, since you have been thinking this way for years, and it comes naturally to you. but it's your choice to decide what you believe.

i know it seems like you have no choice since you automatically think that you are bad, but if you think that you really are good and that thought is only there because you are used to it, it may help you think that you are good.

but i am not saying you should think you are a tzaddik. that would be gaava. you SHOULD realize, that you are doing a lot and you are really trying, and that means you are not arasha, you are regular good yid with a nisayon which you are working on. if you believe that then you can think that. do you believe it?


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ringeddavid
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Hi all,

i spoke with my therapist for the second time today not much what to come out with he's still trying to feel me out before he tells me whats my issue.

i remained anonyamous with him (we talk on the phone) although hes not pushing me he says its important that we meet. Is that true, not that i dont trust him but is it relly neccesary to meet, its not like im holding back on anything, for the sake of m family i dont want to let out my identity, Su7, what would be a reaction of a women if she found out her husband did this, or a mother? G-d forbid this should never happen to you, only happily trusting years for you and your husband for many yrs to come
 
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su7kids
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Ringgeddavid, I think that a therapist may want to be able to see your body language and your eyes when he talks to you. But if you're not comfortable yet, then just tell him that.

Maybe he wants to be paid, that is also a possibility. I don't k now.

As for what a wife's reaction would be, each one would be different.

I think there may be an initial shock and hurt, because due to a lack of knowledge she may think SHE's not adequate for you, not realizing it has nothing to do with that.

Personally, I'd be more upset if my husband (G-d forbid) was having an affair rather than just having a problem with pictures, etc.

If he was a very loving and attentive husband and I felt completely happy in his company, I would have a different (better) reaction than if our relationship was strained and I suspected something, always thinking it could be worse.

I think there is a lack of understanding of the issue out there, because I think that people think "oh, if his wife would give him more intimacy, he'd be fine" or "when I get married and have a wife to fulfill those needs in me, I'll be ok", but I think it is not an intimacy thing, and its not a lack of physical "outlet" either.

If my husband would want to tell me something like this, I would suggest he goes to a therapist and have the therapist meet with both of us together, and then after telling me the situation, have HIM leave the room, and ME deal with the therapist with my "initial reactions" so I don't hurt him.

Just my thoughts.


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ringeddavid
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10/16/07 10:34 PM
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Su7 you hit a few buttons.
1) Thank Hashem my wife is happy
2) B'H we are healthy intamatly,BUT I always felt that when I get married and have a wife she will fulfill those needs in me and i would be ok. which i was for sometime but like you said its a different problem, i dontknow what it is exactly but im working on that.

 
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ringeddavid
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10/16/07 10:43 PM
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Also tonight was was driving home from somewhere and I was over come withthis feeling that i usually feel when im about to be triggered to search for a way to sin. I quickly made my mind think of something else but i couldnt help but feel helpless and small to being controled by those urges and feelings. What if i would of let those feelings lingere a little more what would i do?
its like a wave of emotion that comes over me that at time make my adrinalin pump. i just feel so helpless. im home now and safe from going anywhere i should go, my comps are not a threat and i can control any other possiblity there is now, but what if i was driving still? what if those feelings came again? this all ways happens one way or another, it comes out in so mamy different ways i dont know what to say. i feel so stupid that i am at this point. i beg Hashem please make these things stop i have no control over them.
 
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su7kids
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10/17/07 12:39 AM
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RINGEDDAVID!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made progress. Don't you see that?????????????? You didn't give in to the urges. You found a way to distract yourself. Focus on that. You are finding SUCCESS even small steps.

If those feelings come again, do the same thing you did tonight. That's the "habit" I was talking about that you have to keep practicing until you get "ahead" of the thoughts.

Ringeddavid, please be proud of this. This is what I was talking about -- the tiny steps, the tiny movements in the RIGHT direction. Give yourself a pat on the back, and don't go overboard, because you're not CURED yet, but you've found a tool that works. Use it again until it becomes second nature to you, and when it doesn't work, you can try something else.


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ringeddavid
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10/17/07 1:53 PM
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Su, i know your right in threory but it just doesnt seem to help me but i will try cuz its the right thing to do. Do you know what my problem could be? if you cant say here the pm me.

This morning before i woke up i had a vivid dreamt that drew mw out of my sleep, I was dreaming that i was falling prey to my problem and i wanted to stop but i couldnt i was trying really hard, i think thats what woke me. I dont know hwat this means but i really felt horrible that i am effected even in my sleep!!! i knowthis sound maybe a little foolish but i am actually very serious and i want to know what people have to say in a serious way. I think its cuz of twothings tha happened during the day, and as chazal say dont think of things by day for they will bring you to sin by night. Thak hashem I didnt sin but it may have caused this I felt so guilty that i was a subject to this when i cant control it. IF it wil help you to give a better answer to me if you knew what it was that happened yesterday pm me.
Thank you everyone
 
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su7kids
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Ringed, do you think I need to know what the actual problem was? I think the fact that you're dreaming about it means more that you're working it through on all levels and I am not so sure its a bad thing.

I think y ou are reaching out for help and all parts of you are reacting to it. Don't forget, your Yetzer Horah is very strong and doesn't really want you to let go. So, when you're awake and conscious, the Yetzer Tov will tke over but that Yetzer Hora gets in wherever it can!!

If you think its necessary to know what happened, pm me.


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kivunulo
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10/17/07 9:43 PM
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i actually was crying yesterday when i read ur post what u said u feel that u r not in control of ur actions it so reminded me of myself and it is so sad because there are so many other people like us who dont even have to whom to talk.
 
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kivunulo
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10/17/07 9:48 PM
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one thing is for sure YOU ARE MAKING PROGRESS!!!!
you should be happy you know what a big thing u d did by holding back this one time its indescribable.
hashem IS truly helping you trust in him and he will keep on helping you.


Edited: 10/17/07 at 9:50 PM by kivunulo
 
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ringeddavid
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10/17/07 11:20 PM
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to comment on what you said Kivinu, In my opinion if someone was somewhere then he went back and then returns its not progress it's fixing what neg he did. I was here before to me this is not progress this is just trying to get back to where i was at an earlier stage of fixing my sin. IF I AM WRONG SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN to me why? YES i want to be wrong but this is how i think
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/18/07 1:24 AM
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i disagree with what you said. ur NOT going back to where you were before. every time you hold back, you became stronger. you really did. you may think that the fact that you returned to the aveira in the past, even after holding back many times, means you did not become stronger. but that is not true. you held back, and you became stronger, and you will keep becoming even stronger every time you hold back in the future.

the times that you gave in, did NOT destroy the strength you gained from times that you held back. that s silliness. you became strongerr every time you held back. that strength is now inside you FOREVER. you just need to use it. the more strength you gain, the easier it will be to use it, until, in a while from now, it will feel almost like no struggle.

as with everything in our lives we need hashem's help, so davening always helps, hashem hears your tfilos, you are a good person fighting with your yetzer hora.



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Enjoying life while fighting anxiety!
 
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ringeddavid
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10/18/07 1:08 PM
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Although i know you are right because chazal says so and they are never wrong in my kishkas i cant seem to impliment that in my life. The fact that i win sometimes does not make me any stronger if i fall again, its either i am fixed or not, if you buy something and it break you take it back to get it fixed if it breaks again it wasnt fixed aned broke again IT WAS NEVER FIXED properly. So true chazal say it i just dont see it in physical form
 
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su7kids
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10/18/07 1:32 PM
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You are a person, not a "thing" and you are a work in progress, as are the rest of us. The beauty of teshuva is that its always available for all of us. So, every step you make closer to your goal is a healing of the "damage".

You are very tough on yourself, but Hashem isn't as tough. He is forgiving. That's why we're allowed to do teshuva and Teshuva means returnING, not returnED, Hashem knows that you're moving in the right direction.

Remember the story of Nachshon ben Aminadav? He went into the water up to his nose, when he couldn't do it anymore, HAshem opened the waters for him.

Keep moving in the right direction, the door will open for you, and you will find it easier and easier each time.

Analogy of climbing a ladder: You go up one step and fall down, next time you do that one step easier, and you make it to the second step and you fall right down to the bototm, but you KNOW you can do the first step, so you hop onto it and up you go, and you do the second step and you reach for the third, and then you plop right back down to the floor. But you did the first and the second step last time, so its a breeze THIS time, and you make it to the third, etc.

That's how I see our progress in life, EVEN if we fall down.

The next time you make it to the third step you may only fall down to the first step and not all the way to the ground, but its the same distance, but you're starting from higher up. Make sense? I hope so.

I can see you doing it, and I believe in you.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/19/07 5:01 PM
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Dear Ringeddavid,

I heard you. I'm sorry, I was not really understanding you before. I gave you the wrong answer. I did not think it through enough before I typed it, so it had almost no connection to your problem. Now, though, I heard you, and I think I understand.

You are right. If you just keep on trying not to do the aveira, you will probably end up going back to it eventually. You will constantly feel like you are fighting yourself, and that is basically impossible to keep up on a steady basis. That's how you feel right?

Yeah. I know the feeling.

I know that really well. I mean it. I suffered a lot from it.

So, then what else is there to do, besides holding back for as much as you can? How can you ever get to the point where you know that YOU WON?

If that is the problem you are having, I want to know, because I had that same problem, not two months ago.

Please respond soon. I'm leaving for Israel, and i don't have much time left for using the internet....

(talk about pressure, huh...)

For now, instead of thinking about what chazal said you SHOULD think, think about what is REALLY going on inside you, and tell me the truth. It takes time to internalize what chazal say, and i have patience. Take your time. There is really no rush. Think about what chazal said, and see how it applies to you. It's OK if you don't feel it in your kishkes. As you find out more about yourself, you will be able to think more and more clearly about these things.

Keep it up with your therapist. I think therapy can help you take the right steps, in a powerful way. It also works gradually. And after a while you end up looking back and saying WOOOAAAAHHHH.

Shtark!


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Enjoying life while fighting anxiety!

Edited: 10/19/07 at 5:13 PM by shtarkebachur
 
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ringeddavid
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10/21/07 12:54 PM
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Hi everyone sorry I haven't written the past few day. I've been busy. Firstly I'd like to address Su7 May hashem bless you with all good. You mentioned "Teshuva means returnING, not returnED, Hashem knows that you're moving in the right direction" that is true but the ultimate goal is to try to be good concerning din not rachamim. Teshuva is from hashem's rachamim and we never know how far that goes. the aim should be in my opinion to get to an end and not the means. My therapist told me I am very impatient and desire results very quickly. The is true concerning myself I am, but with others I am very patient, precisely for this reason, for myself there is no room for not dealing with "Din" yet with other you may only be rachman. So true I maybe hard on myself, wether its right or wrong is debatable but I DO SEE THAT I NEED TO CHANGE!!!! How? I DON'T KNOW!!!! Anyone have suggestions?!?!?
 
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ringeddavid
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10/21/07 1:08 PM
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Hey shtarker, firstly I wish you all the best in eretz yirsroel. May Hashem send you much chizuk and may you have the koach to use it to grow and be strong. Learn well, that's the best weapon!!!

What I'm telling you is that this is the fight that goes on inside of me. I have a hard time seeing outside of how I percieve what a person should be like. The fight is so hard.
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/21/07 5:22 PM
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yeah, it's hard. i mean, you can't change the way you have been thinking in one day. it takes time, and you need to work on it.

i can't really tell you how you should change... what does your therapist say?

my therapist keeps poiinting out to me when i act like i have to make everyone like me. he keeps telling me when i am doing it, and asks wy do i have to do it? i try to listen, and i see what i can do to change that. i get impatient with myself, too. my therapist tells me, look how far you came! why don't you allow yourself to feel good about how far you came?

it's hard for me to answer that, but i realize it, and i'm trying to be more happy about the good i do. so should you. ithat would help a lot in your fight, because as far as i know, the strongest reason for you giving in to this taava is your despair. youthink you will never be good enough. maybe i am wrong about you, if i am tell me. but this is the way i feel anyway, and the happier i am with my avodas hashem that i Am doing, the easier it is for my to just ignore the yetzer hora. it's not even a fight sometimes, because when i feel happy, i don't NEED anything else.

this probably applies to u too.


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Enjoying life while fighting anxiety!
 
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shtarkebachur
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10/21/07 5:37 PM
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you know what heped me the most? i found things to do that i love, and that are helpful for others. i do these things, and the more i do them, i get more into them, and i don't have that empty feeling that brings me to sin.

let me just say what i do. i post messages here, whenever i think i can help someone. also, i chat with someone onlie who is fighting this addiction, and we became really good friends fter a while. i also wrote an article for rabbihorowitz.com. anyway, i ejoy these things, and i really feel that i have helped some people, and they tell me so. the way i feel now that i did these things, is not so obvious. i mean i don't jump for joy. but even though i can't feel rreally really happy yet about my mitzvos, i still am working on it- still, i know that deep down i am feeling dfferently than before.

i see it in my whole life, and in the way i can just ignore a nisayon when it comes up. i used to get reminded of all my past mistakes and felt like i may as well give in now too. but now i feel like i am really better than that. it still feels like a lie when i think it, but i know i am starting to believe it since i usually overcome the nisayon. not always, but almost always.


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Enjoying life while fighting anxiety!
 
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ringeddavid
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10/21/07 11:58 PM
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Hi all,

Today I really had a rough day concerning my issue. The Yetzer is really pushing hard, today more then the past few days the yetzer has been reativly the same but the strength was very strong today. I guess what helped/held me back was the thoughts of how i would feel afterwards now that i've gone so long and so far to help myself and how it would really mess up my mind for future help and whatever help i had. It was really hard today, I wasnt able to call my therapist for some chizuk which would have made my day real easier, but thats what hashem wanted and so it was. I am scared about trusting myself and things seem clearer now about how to think but during crunch time heck i cantt think straight. My therapist told me to writed down what happened when i was temped and to do something else if i can. i cant think about anything but pounding my head and praying i dont loose the battle. does anyone have some ideas for this matter
 
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su7kids
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10/22/07 12:20 AM
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The only idea is "did you give in to the yetzer" or did you control it? How would you have handled it in the past? Would you have gone "further" than you did today? Can you find things positive about progress that you made today? You have to keep finding the positive in it and strengthening the positive.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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gad
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10/22/07 1:10 AM
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Originally posted by: ringeddavid
I guess what helped... was the thoughts of how i would feel afterwards


Sounds awesome. And you managed this, to keep focussed, even while thoughts were swirling.

Like Su7 says, your accomplishments are very impressive.

Hope to hear good news.
 
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ringeddavid
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10/22/07 4:59 PM
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Welcome back Gad,

Although I know you read all the posts, we really can use another special person here. Please stick around we all like it!!!

Su7, I know that what you say is true and for the fisrt time it is working a little. when i am not fighting with something i look back at my battles and appreciate what i've done and how i've won and i "deposit" all of it in my "bank". the problem with that, may i never know what it ffels like, is that if G-D FORBID i do fall everything will go out the window, I've expirienced this before and in a sence it is scary for me that what am I gonna do? I'm not scared of the fall if G-D FORBID I fall I'm scared of what will happen after.

Today I had a really inteersting/good expirience. If you remember a few days ago i was troubled by a dream i had, i was troubled that it was a reflection of true occurances and i couldnt help it, well today i had a dream and there i won in that dream i was so happy and I do have a better feeling of watching where my eyes go when i'm out.
 
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ringeddavid
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10/22/07 5:07 PM
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Originally posted by: ringeddavid

I've expirienced this before and in a sence it is scary for me that what am I gonna do? I'm not scared of the fall if G-D FORBID I fall I'm scared of what will happen after.

It is meant to say "I've expirienced this before and in a way because it is scary for me cuz i,ve been there what am I gonna do? I'm not scared of the fall if G-D FORBID I fall, I'm scared of what will happen after."
 
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