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TOPIC TITLE: Why do innocent people suffer?
Created On 8/22/13 4:14 AM
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Lasthope
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8/22/13 4:14 AM
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Anyone like to share their thoughts on this topic??
 
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gad
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8/22/13 6:13 AM
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We don't know now. When the complete and true redemption comes, we will then appreciate it.

There is a verse, I think in yeshayahu, "I will (future tense) thank you G-d that you showed anger to me."
 
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Mimi1022
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8/22/13 8:35 AM
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The only thought I have is that if innocent people didnt suffer it would make the system of reward and punishment clearer. Maybe G-d does not want it to be so clear.

Other than that, no idea! I think there are books written about it.

Good question
 
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HopefulMommy
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8/22/13 10:21 AM
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So many books were written on the subject over the centuries! We can't possibly summarize them here.

I guess one way to say it on one foot is that suffering is a means to growth. No pain no gain kind of thing.
 
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keep climbing
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8/22/13 10:36 AM
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I just heard this in a shiur, "A life filled with pain is very hard, but a life filled with nothing is worse."
I guess we are not meant to be comfortable here. We have a lot of work to do.
 
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Lasthope
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8/22/13 12:15 PM
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But how could a loving Gd hurt us so badly and over and over?
 
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Lasthope
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8/22/13 12:52 PM
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How could a loving Gd kill my father and leave a family destitude physically and emotionally? How could a lovin Gd let me suffer for so many years with such painful emotions? How could a loving Gd do what Hes doing to me now? Trying to work through my emotional pain but constantly being pushed down by lifes problems. Givin me kids when i tried not to have them. Giving me kids with difficult issues that only add to the stress of my life. Not just difficult. Brutal. Two children with bathroom problems. Hell. Absolute hell. And me? I still have one of the meds in my system and im suffering from severe constipation. Endless pain. Im finally trying to get out of this hole bit He just wont stop pushing me down. Im starting to think that maybe its all random. Maybe there is no hashgacha pratis because there is no wy that a loing Gd could do this to a human being
 
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toy123
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8/22/13 1:03 PM
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Last hope I'm so sorry you're in so much pain. I can so relate to your pain of asking how could Hashem do this. A few years back when I was in one of my deep depressions, I went into the Klausenberger Rebbe (we're Klausenberg) and he told me if we ask why Hashem says come up and I'll show you. You know what I answered? So let Him take me!!

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you, I wish I did. All I could send you is hugs and a lot of hatzlocha!!!!

Feel better QUICK!!!


-------------------------
Sometimes you need to run away just to see who will follow you.

Sometimes when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to look me in the eyes, hug me tight and say "I know you are not".

Just because I'm smiling doesn't mean I'm happy.
 
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keep climbing
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8/22/13 2:15 PM
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((((HUGS))))
Oy, Lasthope, I'm sorry you're feeling so horrible.
We're with you.
 
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I'mTrying
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8/22/13 4:55 PM
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May Hashem give you a nechama and clarity so you can see that the suffering has a purpose.
I know there are lots of resources out there, but for anyone who wants a suggestion, I highly recommend Rabbi Yitzchak Kirzner (z"l) 's taped series on suffering. The mp3s can be purchased on rabbikirzner.org
I found them to be comforting.


Edited: 8/22/13 at 9:07 PM by I'mTrying
 
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Lasthope
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8/23/13 1:21 AM
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Toy, i wouldve said the same thing to the Rebbe "so let him take me".
I duno why he aaid that to u cuz its not so comforting. What is comfortig is your sympathy and everyone elses sympathy. Thanks ceryone for caring.
 
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MoMo
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8/23/13 1:30 AM
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I too have grappled with this question.
Moshe Rabbenu had this question too.
Here in this world There really is no answer that we (rather I) can understand.

P.s. what did the Klausenberger Rebba answer to that?
 
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channafofanna
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8/24/13 11:07 PM
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MY answer to why innocent people suffer is:
People only do things if they can justify it. Wich is basically making themselves insensitive to what they and others think about a certain thing. If they can become insensitive to that then they can probably be more likely to be insensitive to bad experiences. People who are "innocent" have no hard outside skin so the innocent cant deal with much therefore things will be perceived as painful more than with a person who dosent feel pain very often.
Does this make any sence? Its knida a feeling that I have and im having trouble expredssing it. maybe someone else gets what im saying and can explain it?
 
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HopefulMommy
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8/25/13 12:43 AM
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I don't understand, but sounds interesting, and I'd like to understand. Could you try explaining what you mean? Maybe give an example?
 
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Lasthope
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8/25/13 4:42 PM
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I kind of see whatut sying... The innocent are just more sensitive...is that what u mean?
 
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channafofanna
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8/25/13 5:14 PM
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It dosent really matter anyway..... Its a stupid idea anyway.... but thats what I meant Last Hope.....
 
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Lasthope
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8/25/13 6:05 PM
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its not a stupid idea. I think it's actually the one that's made the most sense to me. THe more "innocent" we are or perhaps we can say, pure our neshamos are, the more we suffer in this world.
I think all of us suffering here have high level neshamos and I think that is why we are in more pain than others.
Rabbi Wallerstein described Hashem as King of the emotions - a world that we cannot see. Just like we can't see Hashem we can't see the emotions and feelings that we know are so very real... when we are in emotional pain in this world, perhaps we are atoning for something. THat will make us higher and closer to Hashem and ultimate pleasure in the world to come, which is really all that matters. 70 or 80 years really is nothing much compared to eternity. ANd when you lose a parent, you realize even more how fleeting life is. My dad was 47, and now my older brothers are reaching that age. You have answered my question. Yes, its just all about the next world and we will just have to wait to find out (hopefully 120 years).
 
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channafofanna
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8/26/13 1:10 PM
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That wasnt really what I was saying, but Im glad you have your question answered now....
 
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