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TOPIC TITLE: More kids
Created On 2/20/07 1:48 PM
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Belly
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2/20/07 1:48 PM
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I don't know where to post this and I don't know whom to talk to about this topic. My friend I would be comfortable with talking about this topic is going through fertility treatment and I think it would be insensitive to discuss this issue with her, I don't have a T right now, so I decided to write here what's on my mind.
I have a very small family. My husband really would like more kids. I would love to have more kids, BUT

I don't want to take meds during pregnancy - I'm not sure I can do this. Eventhough I'm on a small doses I'm not sure I can do it without.

I also feel that I don't have the time to wait much longer and see how things will be.

Sometimes I feel ready for it and then again I have times where I feel no way on earth can I add to all the stress I already have. I should not take the risk. I don't want to feel so bad again.

Right now we just have enough money. It's tough with seeing a T, but we can somehow make it trough the month most of the time. THis issue is stressing me alot. I know that if we try to have an other baby I'll have to go to therapy and make sure that this time pregnancy, birth and afterwrds won't knock me over. I'll need alot of help in the house. How are we supposed to pay for all this and another kid?

All these things are going on in my mind and I don't know what to do. I've dicussed it with my Rav. He said that when I"m 100% ready I won't worry about all these things anymore. I know that he is right, but will I ever be 100% ready? Do I have the time to wait?

Shall I come to terms with the point that I won't have more kids?
On the one hand I don't want to suffer again on the other hand thinking about not having more kids makes me so sad.
I wish I would know what I want to do.
I wish I wouldn't feel so much under pressure.
I wish my husband wouldn't care if we had more kids or not.
I wish we would have the money so I know that I'll be able to get all the help and support I need.

Thanks for listening
Belly
 
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su7kids
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2/20/07 2:17 PM
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Did you have post partum depression? I know of a woman who had it really badly. She was actually hospitalized for a full year after her baby was born, and she is not on meds, and had another one, and didn't have a repeat of the PPD.

Have you discussed the financial concerns with your husband? I'm sure he doesn't want to see you suffer any more than you do.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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ernie55B
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2/20/07 8:55 PM
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Hi Belly,

Your therapist should be able to help you sort out all these conflicting feelings. But if you are asking for a personal opinion, here goes:

As a parent who suffers from depression I can tell you that there are times that it is difficult to put on that happy face and make it seem like everything is fine, which is what I believe I should do. There is no reason the children should have to see their father in a depressive state if I can possibly avoid it.
And B"H most of the time I CAN avoid it.

But there are times when it is just overwhelming and I can't help looking sad in front of them.

That being said, I don't have to tell you that as much as we love our children, there are going to be times that children can be a source of stress and tension. That is their job.

It is hard enough therefore, to be a parent even under the best of circumstances. But when a parent is undergoing an emotionally difficult time it is
certainly many times harder.

The bottom line? If you are not 100% well emotionally, then I think it would be a mistake to have more kids at this time in your life.
Be grateful that HKB"H gave you the children that you have and enjoy them to the fullest extent, and if that's all you end up having, then that's all you were meant to have.

I wish you as always a refuas hanefesh,

Ernie
 
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gad
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2/21/07 1:26 AM
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I agree with Ernie that you should ask your doctor.



I have heard that when a new child is born, G-d provides his or her livelihood. And since he's giving for the child, he gives extra blessing for the whole family. I have also heard that it is psychologically healthier for a couple's relationship when they decide to have children.

 
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Belly
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2/21/07 2:26 AM
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Ernie I know you are right.
Gad I talked to my Doctor. She is rather against it, but said that if I get enough help it would be ok. But you see she is not religious and I'm not sure if she understands how much Nachas kids give us. (and boy I know how hard it is to bring up children. I know it's not all a rosegarden)
I have been thinking about this alot, but on the one hand I feel that I'm doing a good job even with my dificulties.
Noone is perfect.
I'm very aware of my moods and I take care of myself and ask for help when necessary. So I really trust myself from this point of view.
On the other hand I know that hormonal changes have their affect on me and why should I take a chanche? B"H I have two wonderful and healthy children. This is alot to be thankful for.
With all this said I still feel that if I think positively and make sure that I get enough help I can do it again. THis time I'll do fine. I never was in major depression. It's low grade and if I look at things differently than I can do it.
But than again sometimes I feel down. I know that the way I think is off and I know how to correct it, but can't do it.
I guess I should just continue davening that Hashem will help me find the right answer for me soon.
I wish I wouldn't feel guilty towards my husband for not being able to give him what he would like.
It's not only my husband's wish. I also look at babies and find them cute. As scared as I'm I also long to have a baby again.
Belly


Edited: 2/21/07 at 2:28 AM by Belly
 
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ernie55B
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2/21/07 9:45 AM
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Hi Belly,

I think you provided the best answer yourself. You should continue to daven to Hashem for guidance. Why don't you just decide to put off making any decision like this for maybe six months, and then re-evaluate the situation.

I did not know, but I am very glad to hear that you are not in major depression. Had I known that, I would have answered as I just did.

Either way, you should not feel guilty about your husband's desires. If he is a loving, caring person then I am sure he wants what is best for you.

Feel well,
Ernie
 
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ernie55B
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2/21/07 9:59 AM
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Hello Gad,

Just need to tell you that what you heard about having children and being psycholgicaly better for a relationship, is a common misconception
in the frum community.

Nothing can be further from the truth.

There are couples who are having marital problems and believe it will improve when kids come along.

This frequently results in more children who have to deal with the aftermath of divorce.

Any couple having difficulty with their marriage, MUST first try and resolve it before bringing children into the picture. I can guarantee you, any psychologist with any expertise in this area
(frum or not) would agree with this.

Ernie

 
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Belly
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2/21/07 12:36 PM
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Gad
I must agree with Ernie what he wrote. Kids are a blessing, but the can be a strain to a marriage. After birth quiet a few marriages go through hard times. The good ones stay together, the other ones...

Ernie

I have quiet often said to myself to just wait an other 6 months. I'm not getting younger and do feel pressure. I don't have major depression, but chronic :-). I'm not sure what's "better".

I whish Debbi would be around. Her opinion is really interesting me. Debbi I hope you are doing well!

Belly
 
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gad
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2/21/07 9:04 PM
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Ernie

I think it's debatable. I think there are cases of marital difficulty where having children brought the couple together. I guess you need to know the statistics.
 
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gad
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2/21/07 9:08 PM
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Quote

Originally posted by: Belly
Ernie I know you are right.
Gad I talked to my Doctor. She is rather against it, but said that if I get enough help it would be ok.
Belly



So if she's saying that you'll be OK with enough help, then it sounds like it's just a matter of getting enough help.
Yes? No? Maybe?
 
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Belly
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2/22/07 2:54 AM
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Hi Gad
She didn't say I'll be ok. She said that if I insist on having more kids then I have to have a lot of help at home.

Now I need a rich uncle. Since paying for help 2-3 times a week during pregnancy and having full time help after I give birth for as long as I need is just above our budget. Let's not talk about paying for therapy during this time...

So it's not so easy to make this decision. I'm sure if money wouldn't be an issue I would go for it. I know I could quit my job and get as much rest as I need and do ok, but that's not the way the world runs.

Thanks again for listening
Belly
 
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gad
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2/23/07 5:23 PM
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I wonder if an organization like "just one life" or "bonei olam" would have funds for this. Perhaps your Rabbi would know. Or maybe "relief" or "echo."

(I figure that if the first two organizations (and others like it) are trying hard to bring more Jewish babies into the world, then it would make sense that something like this would fit into their mandate.)

Have a good Shabbos, and I hope to hear good news.
 
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ernie55B
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2/28/07 4:34 PM
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Hello Gad,

I don't think you need to know the statistics. There may be a few cases where having a child brought a couple closer together, but in general
if the marriage is not that strong then it is just a BAD idea to bring more kids into the picture.

I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT!!!!!

Ernie
 
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gad
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2/28/07 11:58 PM
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How do you know this for a fact?
 
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frumsw
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3/7/07 9:47 PM
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Jewish Board of Family & Children's Services in Brooklyn has a program for post partum depression called AIM. Maybe call them and find what they can offer you. Oseh Chesed based in Williamsburg offers a few days of help. Another thing to find out is if any of these organizations or Bikur Cholim can sponsor a few days at a place for new mothers to recuperate. There is such a place in Seagate, Brooklyn.
Having said that, I understand the pressure you are under-I have 4 children when my friends, neighbors, and relatives have an average of 10 and practically the only ones I know who have 4 are very disfunctional people who shouldn't have had any. Also, I am almost 40 and although I know plenty of women who had children at age 45 or so, I don't see myself doing it. Therefore, I have been working for many years (my youngest is 8) on accepting my limitations. It hurts at times, I correct myself, many times, but I remember what I went through in the past and how hopeful I was each time that it'll get better but it didn't. The better I feel about myself the less of the need I have to compete with everybody else.
Have an open discussion with your husband about your needs and why he wants another child and let him express his feelings even if it makes you feel guilty. Then go and do something that makes you happy and feel fulfilled...maybe get a job, volunteer, get a hobby and encourage him to do the same.
A child shouldn't be brought into this world because the parents have an agenda. It should be here because the parents have an abundance of love to shower on another being. Better two children with a healthy mother than 3 children and a mother who is not well.


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frumsw
 
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Belly
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3/8/07 2:40 AM
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Frumsw

Thanks for taking the time and answering me. I've been thinking about this issue for a very long time. After my youngest was born, I made my husband promise me that he will never ever ask for an other baby since I'm not going to go trough such hell again. I was so sure of this that nothing mattered. I saw pregnant women, women who just gave birth and the only thing I felt for them was pitty. I don't feel this way and I see that many women go trough what I went trough, just that they look at it differently. They are less sensitive and are not aware of many things around them. I didn't see a doctor back then, so I don't know if I just felt overwhelmed or had PPD. I defenitley didn't want to harm my baby or myself. I was sick after the baby was born and my baby went from broken colorbone, to reflux to ear infections..... It took me 2 years to recuperate and feel that I'm back to myself. My older one is very sensitive and suffered from me not being myself. So on the one hand I feel that If I do take care of myself and get alot of help and emational support, I can do it again. On the other hand I'm not sure if I should rely on this. I keep on saying that if someone would give me a baby and say Take care of this baby. He needs a home. I would be so happy and bring this child up as my own. Going through preganancy, birth and hormones.... is very scary to me. Some points that I realize which are very important are that I stop beating myself up for not being perfect. I can't expect myself to be able to do all the activities I usually do when I'm pregnant. Things are more difficult and it's ok to take a step back. It does not mean that I'm worth less. This is something very difficult for me even when I'm just sick for a few days. I'm trying to work on this, but it's hard.
My husband and I had soem talks about this issue. We both don't miss having a baby who wakes us up at night. On the other hand we both feel that our house, better say our small apartment is empty.
Bringing kids up is hard, but I think that I'm more sensitive about it and take it harder than other people do.
Belly
 
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frumsw
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3/8/07 11:10 PM
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It may be that you take things differently than other people do but you have to work with who you are and the resources you have or don't have. I marvel at what other people can go through but they were given those particular strengths and or resources which I don't have. Although I love my kids and am thrilled to pieces that I had them, I personally can't muster what it takes anymore to go through all that. I once said half jokingly that I'll gladly adopt a 3 yr. old as long as I don't have to go through pregnancy and post partum.
IIf your apt. feels empty, have your kids invite friends or have your friends bring their kids or start inviting Shabbos guests.


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frumsw
 
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