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TOPIC TITLE: shiduchim and meds
Created On 12/26/04 12:42 AM
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motcha
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12/26/04 12:42 AM
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I get rejected when i tell girls I take anti depressants. I am a great guy. Can anyone help me? Thanks.
 
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lookinforhelp
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12/28/04 10:22 AM
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I wish I could help you... but I'm just a girl who is depressed and won't take meds because I'm scared that people would find out. I know this is not the right way to deal with my issue... but society has blown depression and medication out of proportion, so it is looked down upon. I believe that depression should be viewed like diabetes; it is a chemical imbalance in the body that needs meds to help balance it out. There is nothing wrong with that, it is simply a neccesity to get you through the day. But just because I think that way, doesn't get people like you or me anywhere...
 
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motcha
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12/28/04 11:05 AM
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I hear you. But if you are really depressed then I think you need to take care of it despite shiduch consequences. You can't just suffer in depression. plus, sometimes you can get off the medication, although that isn't my plans. At least see a therapist.
 
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beenthereb4
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12/30/04 7:52 PM
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If you need meds, TAKE THEM! you have a choice - walk around feeling terrible, being angry/sad/frightened or get the help you need. people with bad attitudes will not attract a life partner. as far as people running away when they find out that one is on meds, they are ignorant and not worth your time. what you have is a chemical imbalance that is beyond your control but within your means to manage through medication and therapy. my life is a blessing now that i have found the correct meds. My entire outlook is positive. my daughter is on meds as well, and she makes sure to tell a potential shidduch about it. if it's a problem then clearly this is not someone who will be supportive of her needs. she is happy, successful and dating. you are worth so much more than an ignorant snob who is clueless regarding what is going on in the world. take care of yourself first. have emunah that you will find the right shidduch. your bashert is out there!


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beenthereb4&survived
 
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motcha
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12/30/04 10:37 PM
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Hi,
Your daughter tells people before she dates that she takes medicine and she still manages to get dates? Wow.
Anyone I tell beforehand won't date me. Rabbonim have told me to say on the third date. I recently told a girl on the second date and she dropped me.
How does your daughter do it?
My experience has been so not like yours.
I agree with you that people that reject people for being on medicine are ignorant but the majority of our community is like that.
Do you use special shadchanim? I feel so challanged in getting a girl to accept it.
 
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beenthereb4
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12/31/04 9:17 AM
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My daughter is an exceptional person. She is by nature very upbeat, and since she does not rely on a shadchan primarily, she will meet a man, get to know him and since he sees her for who she is she can relate her somewhat common yet highly treatable situation.

Have you been to the site saw you at sinai? the shadchanim there should be able to handle this situation, and perhaps find you a match who is either human and will overlook something as minimal as this or perhaps has the same situation.

My question is, would the same girls who reject you due to this illness do the same if you were, chalilah, on dialysis or had an ulcer for which you had to take medication? (clearly these are two extremes but I always wondered about that.) I have found that people who reject a person based on something like medication that they take or the color of the tablecloth your mother uses are not worth your time. Put your efforts into someone who sees you - not the medication that you take.

I will assume that if you are medicated you are also under the care of a medical professional. perhaps a discussion on how to approach this subject with a potential match would be a good thing.

Hatzlacha rabba!


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beenthereb4&survived
 
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motcha
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12/31/04 1:08 PM
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I am happy you have such a wonderful daughter.
Unfortanately, in shiduchim, a person on dialisis has a very hard time getting married too. you are right, people are into the externals.
My psychologist and psychiatrist don't have many ideas. Basically, I have to make sure I don't overblow the fact that I have depression (in remission!) when I tell the girl. but I am going to look into your idea of using sawyouatsinia.com.
Thanks
 
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beenthereb4
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glad you are being proactive. keep the faith - you are not alone. i think that if all the people that were in your situation, medicated or not, stood up and admitted it, we would be the majority! Hatzlacha - there is a woman out there for you.


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beenthereb4&survived
 
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STAYSTRONG
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1/4/05 9:40 AM
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Dear Great Guy,

You are a great guy, despite of the fact that you take medication for depression. depression is a illness that needs to be treated just like anything else. when we have a toothache or strep throat we go to the doctor and take care of it. Same is with depression. Dont let anyone make you feel less in any way just because you are addressing a situation that most people tend to avoid because of there fear of people finding out. You should be proud of yourself that you took the courage to take medications despite of how difficult it is in the frum world. How old are you? tell me a bit about yourself I may have a suggestion for you. I am also on meds for different reasons so i understand you very well. I happen to be in the dating scene as well.

Stay Strong
 
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Gotmuzic
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1/10/05 8:01 AM
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i think what you need to do is not tell girls that you are taking medication. you should go with the flow. once you build some type of relationship then you tell them. it can make all the difference in the world. try waiting a little bit longer. i am also a young guy in the same situation. im not fully recovered so i am not really dating yet but i know thats what is done. if the third date is not enough you can wait a little bit longer in my opinion. maybe im wrong, dont do anything against halacha. i have a friend who was depressed for a long time, he didnt feel he was ready until he was 28 and once he was ready he found his mate. if you are still suffering, maybe its not time for you to get married? how old are you? i am 23 and would relaly like to get married but until im where i need to be emotionaly its hard for me to tell myself that im ready, because i want to feel great when i get married, not just do it for the hell of it. i know its hard to hear that you might just not be ready to get married. it was hard for me to except. anyway just a thought.


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Gotmuzic
 
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motcha
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1/10/05 7:06 PM
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I am 33 and unquestionably ready to get married. I have ready come a long way after being on meds for ten years and I've been around the block so to speak a couple of times. I know all about the 3rd date business and how at least one posek told me I can wait untill it gets a little bit more serious. I've told a girl about it on the 2nd date and she accepted it (we didn't work out for other reasons) and I told a girl about it on the 5th date and she said no despite how close we had become.
I am finnishing college, I have held the same job for 3 years now. I even student teach in a public school which can be very challanging. I get paid to tutor a kid in gemarah at night. After finally finding the right meds and the right psychologist and psychiatrist, which both took a long time to find, I finally am in what my doctors call remission, Baruch Hashem .


Edited: 1/10/05 at 7:07 PM by motcha
 
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motcha
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1/12/05 12:38 AM
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i need chizuk because i am worried. I am a great guy with loads of maalos but I am shvach when it comes to tfila batzibur. I can blame it on mood but I'm not sure if thats fair although years of depression did lead to the bad habot of getting up late. Years back getting out of bed was a real struggle. Now I get to work at 7:45 AM when I have too but I still daven at home. I hope you guys don't judge me. its just that I want a frum girl but someone who will understand me. Also, I listen to goyisha music. All these things started when I went through rough times. Don't get me wrong. I learn...and am a good guy. I hope no one reads this and decides i'm no good for shiduchim.
I do have good news. I just got a tremendously great internship position for my future job. Its hard for me to beleive that I am actually going to be professionally matzliach. i never thought I'd reach this level. And I got an A and a A- in college this semester!
 
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lookinforhelp
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1/12/05 7:37 AM
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Yashar koach on your grades and your internship!!
And as to your fears... I wouldn't worry too much. The girl you are looking for won't mind if you listen to goyish music or not... Think of each unsuccessful date as one step closer to your bashert... I know it's tough, but you gotta just keep believing and putting in your hishtadlus!
 
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motcha
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1/12/05 9:09 AM
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Thanks. I know you are right. I was worried because i gave a yes (shes on my "list", Some would say I'm lucky to have a list but then again the list people don't like it when they find out I take meds so it all evens out. I guess it could be worse. No list and meds lol) ) to a really frum sounding girl last night.
 
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lookinforhelp
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1/12/05 3:10 PM
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Sometimes frum sounding girls can be open-minded as well...
 
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feldman
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1/13/05 1:08 AM
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Dear Motcha,
It's wonderful to see someone being so honest on this topic.
I wanted to tell you that I am a regular "yeshivish good girl" married to great guy who suffers from deression and is on medication for it. My husband told me on our third date and, of course, I had to think abt. it, look into it, etc. (He was very open abt. it and gave me permission to talk w/ his doctors etc.) I know other friends of mine who did the same.
What made us all be open to our spouses' situations-I will tell you. I grew up in a terrific frum family that had to deal w/ different medical issues. Everyone in my family learned to 1)work hard-nothing was served on a silver platter 2)be open minded to ppl. w/ issues. I think you need to look for a girl who is not a JAP (nor her parents). You don't have to look for someone who has the same issues as you, but you should be open minded in the kind of girl you go out w/ (I don't mean as far as hashgafa).
Also, on your listening to non-Jewish music and not going to shul. These are hashgafic issues. By doing this, you are setting the standard for what kind of girl you will marry and what kind of house you will have. Decide what your hashkafas are and then your actions have to been consistant w/ them.
If you are not going to shul bec. of emotinal reasons, that is a different issue. Try very hard to find the shul that is right for you at a time that is good. Take each day at a time. If you can find an uncrowded shul w/ non yentish ppl. that would probably be the best.
Hatzlacha
 
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motcha
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1/13/05 3:39 PM
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Hi,
Thanks. Is the shul thing emotional? I don't know. It probvably started that way. The depression made it hard to move go out you know. And I have alittle of that still. But I get to work on time. I never thought I'd be able to do that. So why can't I go to shull in the morning? (Shabbos is easier) Also, I get really jumpy during Shachris in shull.
mincha and Maariv is alot easier. I learn most nights so I stay for maariv and I'm happy about that.
Hashkaficly, I was allways yeshivish. And I beleive in that. So I don't want a modern girl. And I don't want a TV in my home either. But I'm somewhere in the middle. Like I could see myself learning part time when I become a public school teacher next year. Sounds a little complex no? But I accept that. Maybe I'm scared of marriage. Thats what my therapist and mom think.
Regharding the honesty. I am very honest. I learned that from my parents. I was originally diagnosed as bipolar. Now dr thinks the one manic episode was caused by Prozac. It was 10 years ago. He says 75% depressed diagnosis 25% bipolar but if he had to pick he'd pick depression. My mom says, "
See. Your not bipolar. Don't mention it." But I'm worried about not mentioning it. Ishould ask a rov. But I don't know who to ask.
please don't judge me.
 
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lookinforhelp
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1/13/05 4:04 PM
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Don't worry, nobody is judging you here!
 
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The Power Of Prayer
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Hello. To all those who are suffering I want you to know that you are not alone. Unfortunately, in the frum world there is not enough support for people who struggle with emotional issues. The worst thing is when a person feels stigmatized by others and does not wish to interact with people who are very judgemental and lack understanding. There are many people out there in the world both jews and non jews who treat people with mental illnesses as if they are defected or less of a human being.

When a person has a physical condition such as cancer or diabetes, etc. it seems to be that people don't judge physical conditions the same as they do for mental health difficulties. We live in a world where everyone seems to talk about everyone else. The loshon horah that occurs causes so many people intense pain and suffering. It's interesting though to see everyone judging one another when there is not one human being on this planet who is immune from pain and suffering. We ALL struggle. We all have emotions and we all have times when we are depressed, times of happiness, times of loneliness and despair. If only we could stop judging and start recognizing that we need to come together and love one another. Treat others as you wish to be treated. If we want G-d to be kind and understanding to us then we need to do the same to others. We need to bring more love and kindness into this world instead of bitterness and hatred. One thing I'd like to mention as I conclude. To all those who are suffering out there remember one thing. G-d is there to listen to your cries. Open up your tehillim and cry out to G-d. G-d is your best friend. When nobody else is there for you to turn to always know that you can turn to G-d. Open up your heart and know that you will survive. The truth is that it really doesn't matter whaty ANYONE thinks about you. It only matters what G-d thinks. Take Care of yourself and don't waste time worrying about what the people around you think or say about you because they have their own problems and no matter what they look like on the outside you have no idea what goes on in their life. Trust me on this one. Don't ever look down on yourself if you are struggling with depression because G-d wouldn't give you this challenge if He didn't love you as much as He does. You are so very special in the eyes of G-d. Don't let ANYONE destroy your self esteem. I would recommend doing things that increase your self esteem instead of looking at all the negative things. We need to help each other and it would be wonderful if we could come together and find others who face similar life challenges. It makes a big difference when you know you are not alone. Someday we will know the answers as to why we have to suffer in this world. I promise you that there is hope and we will get through it together. Lets pray that we will get the proper support and that we can help one another and care about each other more. All the Best.
 
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lookinforhelp
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1/16/05 2:39 PM
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Thank you for your words of wisdom. It helps to keep hearing it.
 
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emmapeel
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Power of Prayer has said the words i came to say. all of you be grateful for the air you breathe and know that pdocs and therapists and meds are all there for a reason. counseling is for a reason. take a GOOD GOOD look at yourSELF for a change and get the help you need. then and only then will you be able to love and be loved. we all have some type of trial -- mental, physical, emotional, financial. don't let it overwhelm you. just as cancer strikes some and heart ailments others, the mental agony does not need to become a defeat. make yourself the victor of your own life. travel the road of freedom and dignity. do not become a prisoner of your own mind. get help for yourself. get help for those you love.
 
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lookinforhelp
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I just don't understand why "those who love me" don't realize and recognize that I am depressed!!!
I mean my friends and teachers all realize, so why can't my parents pick up on it and help me??
 
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StrongerEveryDay
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many times it's really hard for parents to recognize that their child is suffering with something that they can't fix. it may be easier for them to turn their heads and pretend it's no big deal, that way they won't have to face the fact. i'm not saying they don't care about you. as a matter of fact, i'm sure they care about you very much but it's so hard to see your child suffer and not be able to do anything about it. this is all subconscious, it's a natural reaction of the mind to protect oneself from something they are afraid of and can't control. it's a type of denial. just be patient with them and realize that they love you very much and they do care and always keep the lines of communication open. the more you talk to them and tell them how you feel and what they can do to help and support you, the more they will understand and they will be more comfortable and not so afraid of it.
hatzlacha


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Everything that happens is for the best, even if it may never seem that way.

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lookinforhelp
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2/26/05 7:42 PM
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Thank you Stronger! Are you a parent?
 
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StrongerEveryDay
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no, i'm not a parent. i'm a daughter and i've been dealing with depression adn the sort for a while and i've come to that realization after many sleepless nights thinking that my parents hated me and were doing anything they could to put all the problems on me.
good luck with everything.


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Everything that happens is for the best, even if it may never seem that way.

StrongerEveryDay
 
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motcha
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I used to be angry with my parents but that was because iritability can be a part of depression and bipolar. Now that I am recovered I have no problem with them. Are they perfect? no. But they have tremendous maylos and no one is perfect. When I go on dates and here the girl talk about her parents I some times realise how lucky I am.
 
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lookinforhelp
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You are so lucky! Being depressed has definetely caused me to be extremely irritable at times, and since my parents are blind to that fact that I am severely depressed the just don't understand!! It is the most frustrating thing in the world!! I wish I was closer with them and could explain myself, but for some reason I don't see that happening ever...
 
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motcha
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Did you ever sit down and ask your parents if they believe in depression, therapy, meds, etc or do they think its all made up?
 
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hisbonenus
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I married someone bipolar, I'm considered a "good girl." My husband has every Maala and then some; he's a genius, caring, and giving person. I was supposed to find out before the first date, but the Shadchan never ended up telling me. (His mother did.) I'm glad, though, because I don't think I would have been able to give him a fair chance.

I did 3 18-hour days of research (mostly online) and realized that it wasn't a terrible enough thing for me to want to stop going out. I went out a few more times, and we got engaged!

If you're going out, you need to make sure that you have a system in place that your future spouse will have time to adjust without having to take care of you:

1) Make sure you have found meds that WORK for you, and you know and can deal with the side effects.
2) Have a regular schedule of maintenance appointments with your psychiatrist.
3) I'd recommend staying out of the hospital for at least 6 months, to reassure your spouse that you're "together."
4) Learn your symptoms, and practice recognizing them yourself! If your mother usually tells you you're off-balance, learn to notice first. Your spouse will need some time before learning what's you and what's the disease. It's not fair to give them the responsibility, especially right away.
5) Have a family or friend support, who tell your spouse that they will help deal with whatever comes up.
6) BITACHON!

The reassurance provided by the fact that my husband knows when he's on a mood swing (I still have a hard time noticing); that his parents are there in case anything happens (B"H nothing major has happened, minor depression or mania before meds reversed it); that he's taking care of his meds in case I forget (I always do); and that he's together- it's really something I can live with, and getting married to him was the best decision I ever made in my life.

You need to make sure that you are marriage-material- untreated mental illness will destroy a marriage.
 
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lookinforhelp
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I never sat down with my parents, no. I think I am too scared! I'm get aggravated that they haven't noticed this on their own! And if they are blinding themselves to it, what's the point??
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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Hisbonenus,
What a moving post! Thank you for sharing and giving both chizuk and practical advice!
Adam Lynn
 
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pdk
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I am also on meds because I went through a bad period in my life. but you should know and tell everyone that someone who takes meds and is stable on them can live a normal life as long as there not skitsofrenic so the problem is with the people who should be on medicine and isn't and not the opposit


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dkarsai
 
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lookinforhelp
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Yeah, but whether it's a good thing you are on meds or not--- it's still a stigma!!!
 
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motcha
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I know of a recent case where a frum scitzophrenic got married.
 
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lookinforhelp
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THERE lies the stigma... the fact that it is considered such a "neis" that a frum schizophrenic person got married... Why does there have to be such stigmas attached to people who are "mentally" ill, but not when they have physical ailments! I just don't get it!!
 
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DayByDay
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I can state from experience that shidduch dating while on meds for any mental health issue is a voyage of masochism. I have told some dates earlier, some later. The results were always disappointing. Not only was I left with a broken heart but with a broken spirit. The process of explaining that you are fully-functional, non-chainsaw-wielding member of society is humbling and demeaning. Community support is non-existent and one is hard-pressed to find a Rav that will go the extra mile for you. Feeling ostracized by the community deeply affects my spirituality and makes it difficult to reconcile with GD. I truly wish I could be posting words of comfort and confidence. I hope those that can find those words will take a moment to post them.
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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I understand the painful "catch-22" of being on meds and shidduch dating- to tell or not to tell, and when to tell...I work with several couples in which at least one is on meds, and often the issues we address in therapy has little to do with medication. The biggest hurdle I see in terms of removing the stigma of mental illness is proper education and exposure among community leaders. For the short term, practically, I usually advise people to NOT disclose right away concerning being on meds.
A Lynn
 
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MacaroonFan
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To Beenthereb4:

WOW! My thoughts exactly.

To Motcha:

If a person isn't willing to accept that you have a medical condition without judging you, then why would you want to associate with her/him in the first place? Too many ignorant frummies base their opinions of mental illness on myths and stereotypes, and those sorts of people should be kicked to the curb when looking for someone to date/marry.

- T.H.S.
 
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MacaroonFan
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MacaroonFan
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Oh, and one more thing: The issues that have been raised in this thread bring to mind the inherent weakness of the shidduch dating scene. Since information must be transferred through a Rav or a shadchan, little quirks/idiosyncracies of a person's personality somehow get transformed into full-blown 'I-wouldn't-want-my-kid-to-go-out-with-him/her' problems. This often causes huge emotional scars.

People in the shidduch dating scene act as though marriage is comparable to buying merchandise: You inspect the anticipated product, and if it has any defects, you immediately discard it.

Orthodox Jews have to stop being this way. We have to start seeing each other as human beings - not just someone who might pass on 'negative things' to our future children.

Motcha, my suggestion to you is to stop looking where/how you have been looking before. You are quite more likely to find someone who respects you if you leave the shidduch dating scene.

- T.H.S.
 
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lookinforhelp
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Wow Macaroon Fan,

You sound so bitter! What do you have against frum people and our way of dating?
 
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MacaroonFan
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4/27/05 10:30 PM
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I just explained what I have against it!

Oh, and thanks for implying that I'm not frum.

-T.H.S.
 
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lookinforhelp
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4/28/05 4:32 AM
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I'm not implying anything! I'm sorry and I truly didn't mean to offend you in any shape or form. I'm sorry if you felt that way. I hear what you're saying, but that's just the way it has to be, so what's the point of being bitter about it?
 
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MacaroonFan
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4/28/05 2:55 PM
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Why is shidduch dating the way it 'has to be'? Do you think that even in the 'olden days', when REAL matchmakers were used, there was such heartbreak and rumor-spreading involved in the process? No.

And if the frum community would start dating NORMALLY, people would stop seeing each other as 'someone who will give my future children terrible disorders' and start seeing each other as HUMAN BEINGS.

Imagine that! Seeing people as human beings.

-T.H.S.
 
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Ray
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5/4/05 3:30 PM
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Macaroonfan,

i think ur right. the shidduch dating scene is so crazy. no one is realistic!
it's just hard to stop the way u were doing things, like the shadchan thing and meet your zivug any other cuz for some odd reason it's not accepted in these circles. it's very hard, u have to rely on someone settin you up.
the singles events are a little intimidating, i never went to one.

hope ur ok.

 
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lookinforhelp
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5/9/05 4:32 PM
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Dear Macaroon,

Please don't think that I'm attacking you, I just want to give my humble point of view, after all, that is what I beleive this sight is meant for!!

In the olden days, matchmakers were used, yes. Rumors didn't spread like the do now b/c there was no phones, email, IM, faxes or internet. People were also more conservative and stayed around their homes rather than going all over the world! Therefore, rumors didn't spread. There was also less illness and depression was not known. There world, I think, was an easier and more simple one. Hence, the whole inyan og shidduchim was easier to do and people were happy with less. They didn't need their husband to have a fat bank account and a PHD in psychology. The standards were different along with everything else.

But nowadays, unfortunately, our world is corrupt. Even in the frum society everythign is crazy! People gossip 24/7 and the smallest things are turned into horrifying stories, thereby preventing people from getting set up! It's disgusting, I know, but it's the way it is. It's a fact of life.

I'm sorry I don't have time to explain, but does this make any sense?

Feel good, LFH
 
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Admin
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5/10/05 1:13 PM
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Please Everyone,

Intentional personal attacks against anyone will NOT be tolerated! These messages will be deleted ASAP and might result in permanent termination of membership! Please everyone, CALM DOWN!

Admin
 
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lookinforhelp
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5/15/05 12:01 PM
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I'm really, really sorry Admin. I promise I didn't mean any harm!!

The last thing I would want to do on this site is hurt someone's feeling, but I don't seem to be percieved well lately!
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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5/15/05 11:41 PM
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Hello gang,
Shidduch dating, and finding Mr./Mrs. Right is a very tough subject...one that arouses very intense feelings about oneself, Hashem and the frum community. This is very understandable, especially since anyone with a "blemish", be it medical or mental is so marginalized in the frum community. It seems very important to me to find shadchanim who are sensitive and have derech eretz.
a lynn
 
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ernie55B
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5/16/05 3:08 PM
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Dr. Lynn,

You are not kidding when you say people marginalize those with a 'blemish'. I just saw an article in the Mishpacha magazine (a chareidi publication) decrying the fact that there are some in the chareidi community who if C"V have a baby that is not mentally healthy, they will give it up for adoption, even though they know full well the child will be placed in a NON-JEWISH HOME! Some see the fact that they had this child as a punishment on themselves;
others are afraid it might affect other family members (the writer does not use the word 'shidduch', but you know what she means).

What an awful commentary on the state of Yehadus today! Can we expect Moshiach to come if people take this attitude?
(I happen to know someone personally ,who gets tremendous joy from his Down Syndrome child!)


Edited: 5/21/05 at 9:37 PM by ernie55B
 
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