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TOPIC TITLE: If I become my mom, shoot me....
Created On 12/28/08 3:44 AM
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mouse
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12/28/08 3:44 AM
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I'm not sure why I'm writing this but I guess I have to vent. Mom came to visit for Shabbos. I think it is the last time I am inviting her, but not gonna tell her that. She yelled at my daughter two times and caused the six yr old to cry two times and withdraw for one quarter of Shabbos. She also cleaned house when I specifically asked her not to. It is a big trigger for me and it wasn't so messy either; just not up to standards. I told her before coming I didn't want her to clean. I really thought I set boundaries. And then I get up after resting and find my poor kids cleaning when they don't want to. I really didn't want them to have a negative attitude towards cleaning or grandma. Now they do have one on both of em. I really only "let" my kids clean when they want to. i find my way of getting them to want to clean. I think that works but noooooooo, gotta have it Mom's way and be cleaner. No such thing as too clean. Grrrrr. I guess I'm disappointed it wasn't the restful Shabbos I wanted it to be. And I don't feel like my mom enjoyed it either. I worked hard and now I'm just disappointed. I feel like I'm back at the stage of trying to satisfy Mom. I thought I gave it up long ago. She made feel embarrassed when guests came by. After they left she said "arent u embarrassed for them to see the house like this???" I'm rambling. maybe i'll add to this later and ramble some more.


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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gad
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12/28/08 1:19 PM
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I agree.

You need to know your limits, and you need to know when to say no (in as respectful a way as possible).
 
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killedlastyear
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12/28/08 3:54 PM
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i agree with gad.
i also have to say that i think that whole cleaning is fun kind of thing is amazing that you're doing. or maybe it isn't fun exactly, but you get them to do it without feeling like its a burden (i couldn't tell which it was, but either way that's great). and the good thing is that you're mom isn't around the majority of the time! so hopefully her obsessive cleaning won't have too much of a negative tainting on them (or any at all, i don't know the details).
I really really do agree with gad though. and i know all those "advice columnists" would answer the same way :-p sadly this situation is one that too many people are struggling with....
 
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downandout
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12/28/08 4:41 PM
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You sound like you really do a good job being an amazing mom to your kids. I think its great that you only "let" them clean when they want to - that way they can really feel good about it.
It must have been really frustrating to have your Shabbos turn out like that. It sounds like you had pretty high hopes that it would turn out differently, and then when it fell back into the old pattern, it was very upsetting. I know the feeling - not with this specific situation, but with old patterns just playing themselves over and over again.
Feel better!
D&O


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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mouse
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12/29/08 2:48 AM
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I should probably add she made my daughter cry for 1/3 of shabbos and we had to call her therapist immediately after to get her to stop crying. My daughter thinks she did something wrong wehn in reality she was just mistreated. She made my son get angry too by complimenting only my daughter to the point that he felt inferior and said something about it. She definitely pinned them against each other. Then she goes and hurts my daughter so much and she didn't have a soft place to land (her brother.)

I tried toset limits with my mom. It didn't work. She thinks that if i had a cleaning lady I wouldn't need to be in the day hospital. Denial?


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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gad
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12/29/08 8:48 AM
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Your mother is speculating, without taking into account the whole picture.

Passing judgement in such matters is reserved for doctors, who know the situation, and who have the expertise and experience to say what will or won't help. And the Torah instructs us to listen to the doctors.


Edited: 12/29/08 at 9:03 AM by gad
 
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Holding on
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12/29/08 4:15 PM
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I'm sorry you had such a hard time.
Hope your kids are doing better.

My parents aren't bad ppl. they just grew up very differently, a different generation. Having said that, I can't get married until I change (think I need therapy ? Actually letting my friend convince me to start thinking about it, and maybe actually trying to start the process...) bec. I don't want to ever have kids if I'll treat them the same way I grew up.
Sorry for ranting on 'your' thread. You just got me with the title...
 
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surrender
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12/31/08 10:15 PM
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Hi, I'm really sorry to hear your experience with your mom, having difficulties with my mom and having kids I feel I need to protect from her negative behaviors can be very stressful. I commend your courage of trying to set limits. Are you by any chance the same munkster that posts on the eating disorder sight? If yes I think we might have a lot in common and if you don't mind I would like to be in touch with you. My email address is rochelbn@yahoo.com thanks and good luck. If you feel uncomfortable that's ok too.


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rochelle
 
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Holding on
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1/5/09 4:44 PM
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Name of thread says it all
 
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4702125952
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1/15/09 10:48 AM
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Munkster,

You may be interested in the following excerpt from Miriam Adahan's website:

The Chidushei Rabbenu Yaakov m’Lublin and Rabbenu Heshel m’Karkav (see the Tur Hachodesh), state that a parent acts like a rasha [wicked person] when he explodes in fits of anger. If the parent acts out of ro’ah lev, there is no obligation to honor him. The Yam Shel Shlomo suggests that it is best for the child to move away. Harav Dovid Cohen shlit’a, has stated that if interacting with an abusive parent makes the child emotionally ill, then the child is exempt from the obligation of kibud horim.

The popular notion that kibud horim is an all-encompassing mitzvah without limits is very harming to the victims, who are often further abused by advisors who command them to apologize for getting angry over the abuse and tell them that they will be punished for their failure to do so. People seem to be far more concerned with the fate of abusers and molesters than the welfare of the victims.

Those who demand that the victim forgive do not realize that this gives the impression that abuse is not so terrible. This increases the likelihood that the victim will become abusive himself, since “If what my parents did isn’t so bad, then what’s wrong if I do it to my children?” This is one reason for the plague of serious emotional and behavioral disorders in our midst.

Read more... the excerpt from Miriam Adahan's online blog:

I also grapple with the limits of my observing 'kibbud eim' with an abusive, borderline mother. Her visits inevitably end with my/my children feeling angry, hurt, crushed, depressed, etc.
 
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