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TOPIC TITLE: surviving Rosh Hashanah
Created On 9/8/09 11:38 PM
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ChannieL
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9/8/09 11:38 PM
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Ok so i am really worried about Rosh Hashana. first of all, my brother is going to be around (the one who abused me when i was little). but thats not even whats bothering me right now. (i guess i'll worry about that closer to yom tov - although thats pretty soon!).

i have a question that's been driving me crazy. are there any rabbis or rebbetzins on this site? i guess its basically a halachic question. although the truth is i'm not sure i really want a halachic answer. i dont know what i want - maybe just to vent.

here it is: is one halachically obligated to forgive someone who has not apologized to you? how about someone who doesnt acknowledge that they did anything wrong let alone actually show a hint of remorse??

like i said i dont know if i want to hear the answer because im not ready to forgive anyway...
its just that now that we are in elul i keep reading about (and i've always learned that) we should forgive others if we want Hashem to forgive us. and we should treat others the way we want Hashem to treat us.

so what kind of message am i giving Hashem???

i refuse to forgive my brother (at least for now - maybe one day in the future...) and i treat him completely coldly. so how will i open my machzer on rosh hashanah and ask Hashem to forgive me???
is my behavior halachically justified at all?? or am i supposed to rise up above everything and forgive him despite everything??? (im saying that kind of sarcastically because i really dont think i can do that right now).

any insight would be appreciated.


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Yehiyeh Tov
 
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su7kids
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9/8/09 11:41 PM
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Giving forgiveness often helps YOU to let things go. But unless a person asks, there is no obligation. So, he would have to show real remorse before you are OBLIGATED to forgive him, and even if he asks, you are not OBLIGATED. At least that is the way I understand it.


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Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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gad
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9/9/09 4:05 AM
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For a halachik answer you need to ask your Rav.

But here is food for thought:

In the laws of asking and giving mechila before Yom Kippur, it says that if you are afraid that if you forgive another person it could possibly cause harm to yourself, then you don't have to forgive him. Because your own life comes first.



So if forgiving another can cause tremendous (harmful) mental anguish etc, then it would seem, based on the above reference, that one would not have to forgive the person.

Also, even if somebody decides to forgive another person, that doesn't mean that he has to be chummy or friendly with him.
He may forgive him, but still maintain a distance for the sake of mental health etc.

Again, this is all a question for a Rav.

Have a kesiva vichasima toiva for a good and sweet year.


Edited: 9/9/09 at 4:12 AM by gad
 
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Aba
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9/9/09 3:09 PM
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If I may there are 2 aspects here one is the Chyuv to forgive people in certain situations and one regarding the idea if I want Hashem to forgive me I should forgive others.
Rabbi YY Rubinstein discusses both of these ideas at
Forgiving The Unforgivable (hat tip: happy 7 ;-) over at http://sheffele.blogspot.com/2009/08/need-help-understanding-something.html)

Little Sheep quotes a Rov at http://sheffele.blogspot.com/2009/09/need-help-understanding-something-all.html

I heard from a friend who had this dilemma and asked Rabbi Bezalel Rudinsky (http://www.ohrreuven.com/ ) As far as the second idea of forgiving others so Hashem forgives us Rabbi Rudinsky answered him that if all he says is, "G-d don't punish the other guy because of me" he is yotzae and can continue to hate or be angry at him.

Kasivah Vchasimah Tovah,
Aba


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"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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little sheep
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9/10/09 11:03 AM
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here's the rabbi's clarified answer: http://sheffele.blogspot.com/2009/09/need-help-understanding-something-all.html

also, Rabbi YY Rubinstien told me in an email, when i asked about abuse, that it's enough to WANT to forgive...

PM me if you want to discuss it further...


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"I'm getting better and better every day, in every way, with the help of Yud-Kay-Vav-Kay"~Rabbi Label Lam
 
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ChannieL
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9/11/09 2:34 PM
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To su7, gad, aba, and littlesheep:
thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post. i really appreciate it and i will definitely look up those links.

aba, at first when i read what you said about at least telling Hashem that i dont want him to be punished because of me, i was really relieved. i was thinking it was great that i didnt have to forgive him right now and could still be yotzae. now im worried that i cant even say that with total honesty. its scary - sometimes i feel like i want to see him punished, see him suffer. that sounds horrible doesnt it? am i that sadistic? i dont know, in general i think i am a nice and decent person. yet when i comes to him, my heart is just cold. so, i was the one who was hurt and yet sometimes i feel like the monster.
do i get any credit for wanting to want to tell Hashem not to punish him because of me?!? for wanting to feel different than i do?!?
what do you (or anyone) think???

i hope everyone has a good and peaceful shabbos.


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Yehiyeh Tov
 
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Aba
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9/11/09 5:58 PM
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ChannieL,
I don't know anyone will blame you for felling the way do. The "second idea" is by definition Lifnim Meshuras Hadin so what ever you do you get credit. As everyone says you have no Chyuv to forgive him.
Hope this helps.
Good Shabbos,
Aba


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"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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4702125952
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9/30/09 4:03 PM
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I wish you didn't have to live in the same house as the abuser. It's hard to let go when you are in the same proximity.

You are so normal for feeling vengeful. The best revenge will ultimately be your ability to get on with your life and experience loving, trusting relationships in your life.
 
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