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TOPIC TITLE: I am feeling this :(
Created On 7/14/12 11:34 PM
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thinkgood
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7/14/12 11:34 PM
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Sad
Empty
Will i ever find love
Will i ever find happiness
Sailing through stormy water
Up and down
Up and down

Hoping for the boat to stop shaking
As I survive one wave
Another is coming right at me
When will i find peace
When will i find happiness
Is there light at the end of this tunnel
Or does the tunnel never end?
 
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gad
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7/15/12 2:40 AM
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happiness comes from knowing that G-d is united with us.

this give us the strength to persevere, and to bring the geula sheleima soon.
 
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HopefulMommy
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Gad, are you speaking from experience?

I used to think that, and to some extent, still think that, and try to make my relationship with Hashem the central point of my life.

At the same time, now that I'm on medication, sometimes I just feel happy out of the blue, without having to work on it, or think about Hashem, or do anything spiritual. Not always. I still have my downs, and still have anxiety. But it makes me wonder how much of happiness comes from chemicals in my brain and how much of it comes from connecting to Hashem.
 
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star
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HM, that's really interesting that you say that.
Sometimes i feel like Hashem likes when im down because im so clearly dependent
on my relationship with Him.
And sometimes i feel that i have to love myself( my definition of happiness) to have a relationship with Him.
I wonder what the balance is.


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: HopefulMommy
Gad, are you speaking from experience?

I used to think that, and to some extent, still think that, and try to make my relationship with Hashem the central point of my life.

At the same time, now that I'm on medication, sometimes I just feel happy out of the blue, without having to work on it, or think about Hashem, or do anything spiritual. Not always. I still have my downs, and still have anxiety. But it makes me wonder how much of happiness comes from chemicals in my brain and how much of it comes from connecting to Hashem.



thinking about Hashem (how He is united with us, and how we can make Him happy) generally gives us reason to feel happy.

other factors can also contribute to feeling happy. it may be more money, medical cures, harmonious relationships, yiddishe nachas, etc.

medication may also be a factor that contributes (chemically) to feeling happy.

but i think that even with all these factors, and even with chemical happiness, it's still important to have a fundamental and 'solid' reason for happiness, a reason that would apply in all circumstances, and which firmly anchors us to the purpose of our being, and to our Creator.

a deeply felt happiness that we feel in our essence.

it's important to have good things physically too. good health, parnoso, yiddishe nachas are all factors that contribute to our well being and to our happiness. this enables us to serve G-d better, including to increase our feeling of happiness, by having more peace of mind to think about His greatness, and His closeness to us.


Edited: 7/16/12 at 4:46 PM by gad
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: star
HM, that's really interesting that you say that.
Sometimes i feel like Hashem likes when im down because im so clearly dependent
on my relationship with Him.
And sometimes i feel that i have to love myself( my definition of happiness) to have a relationship with Him.
I wonder what the balance is.


i think that you have touched, perhaps, on the whole idea of golus.

but i think we can all agree that in spite of whatever gain and closeness etc. that there is (when we connect to G-d during golus and the challenges of golus) that it's time for the geula. so that we can all enjoy harmonious and peaceful and revealed love with G-d.
 
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gad
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although there are gains when we are dependent on Him, but our goal should still be to work towards self-esteem and peace of mind. and to serve Him with joy.

and perhaps the balance is, that at the same time that we realize that we are dependent on Him for everything, at the same time we utilize our talents and efforts to serve Him with joy.

it sounds like a bit of a contradiction. if it's me, it's not Him. and if it's Him, it's not me.
but we are taught that since we are a part of G-d, so since G-d can contain opposites, we can too.

i think that, in some ways, marriage is an example of this kind of opposite. each spouse is devoted to the other, while at the same time maintaining one's own identity.


Edited: 7/16/12 at 5:01 PM by gad
 
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HopefulMommy
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This reminds me of something I wrote when I was feeling especially down, a few months ago. Here's a piece of it:

...So that's probably what I'm missing here – the sense that my unhealthy emotional states are somehow good and beneficial, because everything that comes from Hashem is good. Although I'm not sure if they actually come from Hashem. A part of me still thinks that maybe they are my own fault. But maybe it doesn't really matter.

The story I've been thinking about the most these days is the one about when R. Eliezer was sick and in pain, and his students came to visit him. The first three praised him – that he is like rain, like the sun, like the father and mother to the Jewish people. But R. Akiva said, "Chavivin yisurin." And R. Eliezer liked his words the most. There are many facets to the story. The Tosfos explain that suffering is precious because it's an atonement for one's sins. There is another story, right before this one, about the students visiting R. Eliezer and crying, and R. Akiva laughing, and explaining that the reason he laughed is because now he knew that R. Eliezer would go to Olam Haba. Even though R. Eliezer claimed that there was nothing lacking in his Torah, R. Akiva told him that there is no such thing as a human being who doesn't sin. Everyone needs atonement. It also says in other places that suffering is the route to Olam Haba.

But the main lesson from this story for me right now is that, as the Maharal says, each of the students was adding something to the description of R. Eliezer's greatness, but R. Akiva's description of the situation was even greater. Even though R. Eliezer was such a great person, even though he was the spiritual leader of a whole generation, his own personal avoda, his own struggles and suffering, was even more important on the grand scheme of things. Even if they were meant for atonement, that atonement was an even greater accomplishment than teaching Torah to a whole generation. In a sense, the story is teaching us that our own personal avoda, our own personal growth, is more important and is a higher level than any external accomplishments...

That reminds me of R. Tauber's description of a Pesach seder in a concentration camp, where they had to eat chametz in order to survive. It was their halachic obligation. But in some sense, their wholehearted desire to conduct some semblance of a seder, and their mesirus nefesh to do so, was even higher than if they had the opportunity to eat matzah comfortably in their own home.

Maybe I could apply this to my own life. I've thought until now that my test in my situation with mental health issues is whether I'd be able to overcome them, to be stronger, to be brave enough to drop birth control and to have more children nevertheless. Having children would be a mitzvah and a part of my mission as a Jewish woman. That's the message I've been getting from the rabbis I've talked to. But maybe I was wrong. Maybe I misunderstood the message. Maybe the rabbis also misunderstood Hashem's message. Maybe what Hashem wants from me is not to be involved in external mitzvos and external accomplishments. Maybe He wants me to work on my own personal growth, to look for Him from whereever I find myself emotionally and spiritually, to find Him within my situation, and to work on achieving deveikus. Maybe in some sense whether or not I'll ever have more children doesn't really matter. And I can still think of myself as doing Hashem's will, even if I won't have any more.

If I think of my life this way, as a struggle to connect to Hashem, independently of the mitzvos I'm actually able to do, then the pain will become meaningful. Then I won't be under pressure to figure out a way to make it disappear, to push myself, to live a normal life, to accomplish out in the world, whether within my own family or in my community. I used to think that life is only meaningful if it involves helping others. But Hashem is also an "other," He is referred to as a friend, and one of the meanings of "veahavta lireacha kamocha" is to love Hashem as yourself. Maybe reaching out to Hashem is enough of an accomplishment.

But there are two problems here. One is the problem of actual needs. My family has needs. If I'm not able to meet them, who will? Can I really just get myself off the hook by shifting my goals?

And the second problem comes ... from my lower soul... [who] feels that I'm asking way too much of her, or that Hashem is asking way too much of her. She is absolutely not ready to relinquish her own preferences and her dignity, to give in and to face a lifetime of emotional pain, embarrassment, and humiliation. She is not ready to go with Hashem whereever He takes her...

That part of me has a point. There are sources for that too. Even Moshe Rabbeinu refused to look at the burning bush and to accept any explanation for the suffering of the Jewish people. And Hashem reprimanded Iyov's friends for trying to justify his suffering. And there is something objectively wrong with eating chametz on Pesach. And there is something objectively wrong with not being able to do a mitzvah, whether it's having more children, or any other mitzvah. And there is even something objectively wrong with death, for that matter. It's a punishment. It wasn't part of the original plan for creation. And there is a lot wrong with illness. It says that at Matan Torah Hashem healed all illness because only then people could experience complete joy at receiving the Torah.

...So what should I be working on? Do I work on walking with Hashem whereever He takes me and finding Him there? Do I work on convincing myself that that's the way to go? Or do I work on finding a medical answer to feeling better emotionally and on learning to enjoy life?

...The truth is that it's probably both. I need to work on being able to accept whatever Hashem sends my way and perceive that in itself as doing His will, whether or not I'm accomplishing anything externally. And I also need to do what I can to get out of my situation and to feel good and healthy, both physically and emotionally.
 
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HopefulMommy
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Star, the way I think of it is that when I'm feeling down I reach out to Hashem out of desperation, and that's lo lishma. When I feel good I have the opportunity to connect to Hashem lishma, which is a higher level, so I feel justified davening for that .
 
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star
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thats a good point,HM
as for what you wrote above- and i thought i was a deep thinker


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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star
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in other words, you are extremely deep. i cant even process all that information.


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gad
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i think that the story with rabbi akiva can teach us, that we need to relate to someone in their situation. rabbi eliezer was suffering. the students didn't address the suffering. only rabbi akiva said something that could make rabbi eliezer feel that there was a possible purpose, a possible meaning to the suffering.

"...So what should I be working on? Do I work on walking with Hashem whereever He takes me and finding Him there? Do I work on convincing myself that that's the way to go? Or do I work on finding a medical answer to feeling better emotionally and on learning to enjoy life? ...The truth is that it's probably both. I need to work on being able to accept whatever Hashem sends my way and perceive that in itself as doing His will, whether or not I'm accomplishing anything externally. And I also need to do what I can to get out of my situation and to feel good and healthy, both physically and emotionally."

sounds right. it says that emuna applies to the past, and bitochon for the future. so if someone is G-d forbid not well, he believes that it's for the best. but for the future, he is optimistic that he will get better. and he also needs to make his own efforts to achieve good health, by listening to the doctor etc.


Edited: 7/16/12 at 6:42 PM by gad
 
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gad
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the sixth lubavitcher rebbe suffered tremendously in russia because of his mesiras nefesh for yiddishkeit.

as i remember it, someone asked him about his experiences. he answered, that if someone offered him a million dollars to take away the suffering he experienced, he wouldn't take the money. but if someone offered him a million dollars to have the suffering again, he also wouldn't take it.

so (in line with what you write in your post) while we believe that suffering that happened in the past is for our benefit, at the same time G-d wants us to try to do what we can to achieve everything good physically and spiritually.
 
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wishtobehappy
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hopeful, after reading what you shared above, I can only say WOW. you must have a really special neshomo. Gad too. It's amazing how the two of you manage to grow while in so much pain. I wonder if I'll ever get to that level of spirituality. At this point, the highest I can get spiritually is to feel Hashem's unconditional love. I can't handle anything demanding. It makes me shut down, or I just feel overwhelmed.
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: wishtobehappy
to feel Hashem's unconditional love.

that's incredibly high
 
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wishtobehappy
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are you for real? It's more like self-gratification than spiritual highness
 
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HopefulMommy
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Yes, it is incredibly high. I'm not there yet. It's hard for me to feel loved in general.

I can't tell if I have a special neshama, but I can tell you that I've spent many years working on my relationship with Hashem, and still have a long way to go. If you read what I wrote, maybe even on this forum, a few years ago, you'd see a lot of anger and resentment, and some of is still there and comes up sometimes. Work in progress.
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: wishtobehappy
are you for real? It's more like self-gratification than spiritual highness

sometimes self-gratification means getting in touch with our true self, which is a part of G-d.

feeling unconditional love from G-d suggests a strong connection with G-d.

i once heard that a great rabbi said: 'der pshitus fun a yid dergraicht der pshitus fun atzmus.'

the simplicity of a jew reaches the simplicity of the Essence of G-d.

 
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wishtobehappy
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thanks hopeful, that makes me feel better. resentment and anger sound very familiar. These feelings are pretty new to me and they make me feel guilty. I end up shutting down spiritually because of it. I have a very hard time feeling loved too, but with Hashem I find it easier for some reason. Growing up, I felt hurt and rejected all the time and believing that Hashem was the only one who understood my pain was a lifesaver.

just by the fact that you've worked so many years on building a relationship with Hashem, it means you have a special neshomo. on average, people don't even care enough to be bothered with it. Besides, the way you can get in a good mood by doing spiritual things is way above the norm.


Edited: 7/16/12 at 11:47 PM by wishtobehappy
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: HopefulMommy
Yes, it is incredibly high. I'm not there yet. It's hard for me to feel loved in general. I can't tell if I have a special neshama, but I can tell you that I've spent many years working on my relationship with Hashem, and still have a long way to go. If you read what I wrote, maybe even on this forum, a few years ago, you'd see a lot of anger and resentment, and some of is still there and comes up sometimes. Work in progress.

it's sometimes harder for some people than others. but the important thing is that you are working hard at it. and that is very precious to G-d.
 
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wishtobehappy
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thanks gad, but I wonder if feeling unconditional love from Hashem really means you have a connection. I sometimes feel like it's more of a coping mechanism I developed. When I can't think straight from pain, I firmly believe He loves me in order to stay sane.

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you meant by the simplicity of the essence of G-d. Do you mind explaining?
 
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HopefulMommy
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Wow, this place is busy today. I'm barely keeping up .

Thank you, Gad.

The other day I heard some potential bad news about somebody who I don't even know so well, and I caught myself feeling angry at Hashem. It surprised me. I thought I already worked on that. But it's still there, just waiting for a trigger. They say you can't trust yourself till the day you die.

Star, you are a deep thinker. It's actually not good that you find that you can't process it. That means that I need to make it more readable. I want people to be able to relate to my writing .

Wishtobehappy, thanks. Don't feel guilty about your feelings. They're there for a reason. That's how we grow, by working through our low points and getting higher than where we started. I'm writing about that too, in From the Depths. I can send you what I have so far, the first three chapters. I could use some feedback. If anybody else would like to read it and give me feedback let me know. That definitely needs to be readable, so I'd like to know if it isn't.
 
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gad
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Originally posted by: wishtobehappy
thanks gad, but I wonder if feeling unconditional love from Hashem really means you have a connection. I sometimes feel like it's more of a coping mechanism I developed. When I can't think straight from pain, I firmly believe He loves me in order to stay sane.

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you meant by the simplicity of the essence of G-d. Do you mind explaining?


even if it's a coping mechanism, it can still reflect a strong and deep connection with G-d. by nature, a jew feels the holiness of G-d, and wants to be connected to Him. so even if the pain brings about the connection, it is bringing about and revealing the essential connection that a jew has with G-d.
and even the act of coping is also connected with G-d. the baal shem tov explains that when we are hungry and want food, it's because our soul wants to eat the food and use it to serve G-d. so the hunger is not just a hunger of the body. it is also a hunger of the soul. and the same would apply with coping mechanisms and other things we do in order to have proper health and strength.

as for the simplicity of the Essence of G-d, here is a possible summary as i understand it from chassidus.
when we look at the world, we see a world that seems to operate on it's own. we don't see clearly the G-dliness that gives the world life and existence. but we can sort of sense it.
in order for there to be free choice, G-d hid Himself. so even though He is everywhere, He is hidden from us. and
G-d uses different levels of manifestations of G-dliness to create and interact with the world.
so he uses the level of Elokim to directly interact with and give life to the world. elokim has the numerical value of teva, nature. because the world seems to operate according to the laws of nature. but it is the G-dliness of Elokim that is giving everything life.
the G-dliness of the name Yud Kei Vov Kei is an encompassing manifestation of G-dliness that does not interact directly with the world, but it is united with the G-dliness of Elokim. (there are a number of references in torah pointing to the untiy of the two names.) together, the two levels of G-dliness give life to the world, and keep it in existence.

and there are higher levels of G-dliness.

then there is the Essence of G-d, or G-d Himself. as mentioned before, G-d Himself is everywhere, we just don't see Him. but sometimes we can connect with Him. when we learn torah, or do mitzvos, we connect with Him. but we may not sense it so clearly.

but sometimes we can connect so strongly, that it becomes quite pronounced and felt. when the simplicity, or essence of a jew reaches to G-d, then the jew's soul (which is a part of G-d) reaches G-d Himself in a very strong connection.

 
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gad
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Originally posted by: HopefulMommy
The other day I heard some potential bad news about somebody who I don't even know so well, and I caught myself feeling angry at Hashem. It surprised me. I thought I already worked on that.

i think that it's normal for these kind of feelings to automatically pop up sometimes. when this happens we can push the negative thoughts and feelings away.

there is a story about the mezritcher magid, who was a student of the baal shem tov. he was once sitting at the table of the baal shem tov, and he couldn't understand or appreciate why the baal shem tov was showing the simple folk so much attention. the baal shem tov later told each of his students to put their hands on the shoulder of the student next to them, so that, together with the baal shem tov, they formed a circle. the students then heard such wonderful heartfelt singing of psalms that they became tremendously moved and overwhelmed. the baal shem tov then took his hands off the shoulders of the students next to him, and the singing stopped. he explained that the beautiful singing was the psalms being said by the simple yidden in the next room, as the psalms were heard in heaven. the mezritcher magid later said that he felt very bad that he had felt negatively toward those yidden.

then one night the mezritcher magid saw a vision. children in heaven were sitting and learning chumash, and moshe rabeinu was sitting at the head of the table. one child read the verse, "avrohom laughed and said in his heart, 'will avrohom have a child at 100 years old? and will soroh give birth at 90?'" moshe rabeinu explained to the children, that all of the commentaries are true. but the straightforward meaning of the verse still applies. and if one asks, how could it be possible that avrohom should doubt G-d's word? you should know that it's coming from the body, and even a holy body is flesh.

when the metzritcher magid heard this (that thoughts can come from the body automatically by themselves) he felt better.


Edited: 7/17/12 at 7:34 PM by gad
 
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Aba
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thinkgood,
Welcome aboard.
I hope things pickup
You right very well.

Kol Tuv


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"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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Aba
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H-Mom,
Lets us know when your book comes out I definitely want to get copy.

Kol Tuv.


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"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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HopefulMommy
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Thanks! It'll be a while. I'm still in the beginning stages. But if you'd like I can send you what I have so far. I'm not ready to post it in public. It still needs some editing.
 
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wishtobehappy
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thanks for clarifying, Gad. I find it fascinating. I usually don't have to work hard on feeling that connection and it just comes naturally to me, that's why I'm not sure if it's spiritual or just self-gratification (convenient). If I just love Hashem or feel his love without having to work too much on it, does it also reach the essence of G-d, or is it just coming from my body and flesh (or mind)?

Hopeful mommy, I'd love to read the first few chapters of your book.
 
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gad
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i think possibly both.

there is a physical need to want to be loved. but the soul also wants the love. and the soul naturally feels G-d's closeness because we have an essential part of G-d within us.

 
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wishtobehappy
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that's interesting. I still need to process it.
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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This is such a deep thread! I agree that a huge part of life is trying to see the yad Hashem through the up's and downs. I don't know why, but it seems hashem creates us with needs and downs so that we will break through barriers within ourselves and ultimately come closer to HIM. I also take comfort in the idea that HE doesn"t give us a nisayon we can"t handle.
a lynn
 
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star
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he doesn't give us a nisayon we can't handle? easier said than believed. I think most people on this forum would agree that when they are in the depths of pain, they are not handling the nisayon.
unless hashem defines 'handling' as dragging through the day wishing to stop existing every second. that's not what I call handling or managing a situation.


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gad
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in general, we are given the strength to be able to do what G-d wants us to do.

sometimes, even when things become difficult, G-d still gives us beforehand the strength to be able to persevere.

and even when there are mental challenges, G-d gives us the strength to be able to persevere. (so that even when there are wishes of wanting to stop existing G-d forbid, there is still a connection, albeit sometimes barely felt.)

 
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star
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what's the point of the connection being there if I can't feel it?
if I can't feel the strength needed to persevere?


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gad
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7/19/12 2:59 PM
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you may not feel it directly, but your neshomo feels it.

and the strength trickles down from the neshomo.
 
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star
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7/19/12 4:52 PM
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still-if its not felt consciously, whats the point?
i dont care if my neshama is getting strength from Hashem, if practically i feel im drowning
in my crazy emotions. i certainly dont feel the strength trickling down from my neshama.
which leaves the question unresolved- does hashem really give nisyonos that can be handled?
and what about people r"l who take their life? Clearly they couldn't handle it!


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gad
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7/19/12 7:24 PM
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even when someone is drowning in emotions, generally they still have the ability to choose to do what G-d wants them to do. (so, for example, they have the ability to choose to not kill anyone, to not steal etc.)

sometimes, the sickness can force the person to do something wrong. but that is for Hashem to decide. (courts also face this dilemma, and often need to determine if it was the person's fault or not.)



Edited: 7/19/12 at 7:26 PM by gad
 
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HopefulMommy
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7/19/12 9:11 PM
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I think statements like that can only be made about ourselves, not about someone else. We can't judge how well other people are handling their nisyonos and whether they have free will in their situations. But we can talk about our own experiences. The way I think about it is the bow and arrow mashal that they use in chinuch. You stretch the bow as far as you can, just up to the breaking point, but not quite breaking it. That way the arrow goes as far as it possibly can. The same way, Hashem can stretch a person just up to the breaking point, which can be excrutiatingly painful, but results in maximum growth. I've had experiences in my life where I felt just a hairbreadth away from a breaking point.
 
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star
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7/19/12 9:20 PM
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I agree, hopefulmommy. I feel I can never judge anothers actions because I have no idea of how much pain they are in.
gad, my question remains: what's the point if I can't feel it tangibly?


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wishtobehappy
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7/19/12 10:29 PM
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I agree with star. The thought that Hashem never gives us a nisoyan that we can't handle, does not comfort me either. I know people who ended up having a breakdown because their nisoyan was just too overwhelming. I don't call that being able to handle the nisyan. I was always afraid of it happening to me ch"v.

Unless you consider ending up in a loony bin being able to handle the nisoyan. On second thought, maybe being psychotic is a form of spirituality... I actually know someone who claims she hears her neshomo talking to her all the time and telling her what to do. Talk about a high spiritual connection.... What a pity that the doctors need to medicate her because of it...

sorry about the cynicism, I'm just overwhelmed and it's my way of coping.
 
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gad
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7/19/12 11:09 PM
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the source of this saying is in the talmud, avoda zora 3a.

it talks about the future, when the goyim will claim that if they had been given a chance to do mitzovs, they would have done them. Hashem will give them the choice to keep the mitzva of suka. they go into sukas, and then Hashem makes the sun very hot, and they leave.

the gemora then asks, that G-d doesn't demand from his creations what they are not able to do. (so why did he bring out the hot sun)
the gemora then answers, that the problem was, that when they left the suka, they kicked at it.

so the expression is used concerning mitzvos, or things that G-d asks us to do.

if someone G-d forbid has a breakdown, and can't do certain mitzvos, that doesn't mean that G-d demands of him more than he can do. because G-d doesn't expect him to do certain mitzvos if he is unable to do it.

the fact that the person was overwhelmed by his problems and has a breakdown, doesn't contradict the saying. because the saying is only with regard to what G-d asks us to do.

as for star's question, what's the point if one can't feel it tangibly, the point is that we still have the ability (unless, as mentioned before, in extreme cases) to have free choice, and the ability to do mitzvos that we are able to do, and to not do aveiros that we are able to not do. that ability is something tangible.
and knowing that even in challenging times G-d gives us the ability to do what He asks us to do, that knowledge gives us even more strength.


Edited: 7/19/12 at 11:11 PM by gad
 
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star
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7/19/12 11:10 PM
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i love the cynicism. it almost made me smile.


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thinkgood
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7/19/12 11:16 PM
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I sympathize will all those who are going through a hard time.

I just want to add that I've been through many crazy difficult times when my nisayon felt too much to handle, and it actually comforted me to know that hashem only gives us what we can handle...although it didn't feel true at the time... but in the big picture, when I look back today...no I would never want to endure that suffering again but I could say that I handled the nisayon.

I don't think it's something we can tell anyone else to comfort them, because it truly doesn't help and just gets people upset...but I think it's only something that a person can tell themselves to help them persevere.

I know that there are many times in my life that it seems to much to handle and bear...and sometimes only years later, I have looked back and seen how much I grew from that situation. And each time I am going through a hard time and feel like I can't handle anymore...I remind myself how Hashem took care of me back then even though it seemed hopeless and one day I will iy"h be able to look back at my present situation and see the yad hashem through all.

I don't mean chas veshalom to diminish anyone's pain, and believe me I have my own share, and wish that we should all see the light at the end of the tunnel and each have our personal "geulah". It's actually our job to daven and plead to Hashem to help us from wtvr challenge is facing us..but at the same time take it as a "compliment" that Hashem knows that we can handle our particular situation.

hope that makes sense
 
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star
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7/19/12 11:18 PM
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they kicked at it - whats the meaning behind that?

so the strength we get is only to do mitzvos?
we only get strength to handle mitzvos, but not to lift ourselves out of the nisayon, out of the pain?
that seems very selfish of G-d.


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gad
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7/19/12 11:25 PM
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Quote

Originally posted by: star
they kicked at it - whats the meaning behind that?

they showed contempt towards Hashem and his mitzvos.
 
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gad
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7/19/12 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by: star
so the strength we get is only to do mitzvos?
we only get strength to handle mitzvos, but not to lift ourselves out of the nisayon, out of the pain?
that seems very selfish of G-d.

G-d creates us and gives us the strength to do everything that we do, not just mitzvos.

your question seems to be similar to the question about why people suffer. if that's what you are asking, then the answer is that we don't know why, but we believe that G-d is doing it for our benefit, and when moshiach comes, then we will understand and appreciate it.
 
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gad
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7/19/12 11:33 PM
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as i understand it, the post from 'think good' raises an interesting perspective: that even when we can't handle it, we still handle the 'not-handling', and persevere.
 
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star
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7/19/12 11:47 PM
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G-d creates us and gives us the strength to do everything that we do, not just mitzvos.

How? Tell me how and where in my life G-d is giving me the strength to do everything.
The only answer that i can come up with is that maybe Hashem sees failing as coping/handling
and maybe He just wants me to accept myself even as a total failure.
Easier said than believed and done.

What do you think?



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gad
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7/19/12 11:52 PM
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if you are saying that you want to understand Hashem, the answer is that since He is so much greater than us, we can't understand Him.
 
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star
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7/19/12 11:56 PM
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sorry for sounding so cynical. im just feeling really low.
Im not trying to understand Hashem , im just trying to figure out what He expects from me, i guess.


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