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TOPIC TITLE: Borderline Personality Disorder
Created On 10/22/06 3:24 PM
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4702125952
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11/23/08 12:51 PM
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Can you give me some info about where the DBT group you attend takes place? And what is Recovery, INc.?
 
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justso
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11/23/08 1:59 PM
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Originally posted by: HopefulMommy
I. There are two sides to it. In any difficult situation, a person needs both the acknowledgement of their pain and unconditional acceptance of their feelings, and at the same time, encouragement to work on the issue and belief that the person has the capability to meet the challenge.
...... But you need both. It doesn't help to have one without the other, in my experience.


This is exactly the premise with Dialectical Behavior Therapy -- the dialectical part recognizes that the process of both acceptance/acknowledgement and change are equally necessary for growth and healing.

The therapists that I work with at a mental health clinic are newly trained. (The program was recently added to the clinic's program.) They, themselves share how challenging it is to apply the skills. And one of the therapist shared that in the training they were expected to complete daily diary cards -- and many didn't!

To Rainbow:

The program is simple but not easy. It is easy to make the mistake that because it is simple we equate the struggle with us being inferior (some of us in the group felt "stupid" or being treated condescendingly because of the remedial nature of the class. ) But remember no matter howsmart we may be, a person can still need instruction and strengthening in emotional intelligence.)

As I said before, it requires committment and persistance. Don't give up because its hard. We are in it exactly because this is hard for us. But I am extremely grateful that the clinic has it -- I love it.

If you feel "guilty" after the class or sessions you need to apply the DBT skills and share these feelings with the therapist or in group. YOu are certainly not alone. But is it guilt that you feel? Or do you feel resistant to applying the skills? Review the handouts. Journal about your feelings (while practising the mindfulness) and do the Distress Tolerance skills to help you this hump. Do it just for 5 mins.

There's also a great "unofficial" website that supports the dbt: http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

hatzlaha


Edited: 11/23/08 at 2:17 PM by justso
 
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justso
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11/23/08 2:28 PM
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http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/ has a link for finding providers. (but I don't know how often this is updated) Call your local clinics for referrals. If you have been hospitalized, speak to the psych social worker there for help finding a group.

Recovery Inc. has there own website. It is a peer run self-help group and its free. They also have telephone meetings. Go to the meetings link to find a meeting near you. http://recovery-inc.org/

btw, the EMETT program is based on the Recovery method. You can get the book from Feldheim (Emotional Maturity Through Torah.) I don't know where you live, but there are EMETT groups in various cities. However, it is not intended for dealing with really heavy issues. So if you are dealing with serious issues like self-harm, suicide you may want to go to such meetings as a good follow after graduating from a dbt program.

The author of the EMETT book, Miriam Adahan has another very nice book (which I took with me to the hospital)
30 seconds to Emotinal health. Its very approachable but you'll understand it better if you have the EMETT book.
 
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downandout
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11/23/08 3:57 PM
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Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh!
I've never read this thread before - but this is like click!!
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm dealing with major depression and the beginnings of an ED, but I never felt like any of those really completely identified what I'm going through. After reading this, I feel like "this is me". And its funny - last time I was at therapy, my t said that she thinks there's a personality disorder going on, but we'll talk about diagnosis next time. I'm SURE this is what she'll come up with.
I can identify with just about everything that was mentioned on this thread. I cannot remember ever having created a normal relationship - I always want to be totally dependant on the other person. Of course, ppl don't sense that at first - I appear (and make myself so) pretty typical, rational, and I know how I'm supposed to behave. But I can never properly open up, allow my true emotions to show. And that's where the dependancy comes in - I so badly want to see FOR SURE that the other person really cares about me, that I'll do anything... In high school, I made and lost a string of friends because I just kept trying to control - who they were with, what they did... I attempted to control some of my siblings... Now, I'm at the stage that if I feel like I have to test someone - someone I've just opened up to - then I'll hurt myself or attempt suicide. It's crazy.
And my dealings with ppl I'm supposed to be close with... I'm so afraid that I'll end up becoming that abusive and dysfunctional mom some of you mention, because I don't don't don't know how to relate properly! Leah85, you talk about the way you treat your boyfriend - but that's how I've come to treat my husband. I can't talk a nice word to him - and if I ever do, then I regret it immediately, because he's so happy that I've talked normally and not like a mean, mean person, that he thinks that I'll keep being nice - and I can't keep it up for so long. There's just this demon inside me that doesn't allow me to keep any relationships normal - it just wants me to be pitied by others and have caring, caring, caring - to the point that I mess things up with everyone and have totally unrealistic expectations and then just feel even emptier and sadder than ever...
Does this make any sense? It's just what I feel.. and I felt that reading what other people wrote over here made me feel like maybe I belong somewhere - and even though this is a tough thing to get over, if I have a correct diagnosis then maybe I could one day??
Thanks for hearing me out.
d&o


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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Aba
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11/24/08 6:39 PM
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D&O,
I didn't read this whole thread but what you said does make sense and should be explored further.
You and your husband may find this book helpfull Get Me Out of Here: My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder it is about a woman who recovered from BPD. Rainbow also mentioned it earlier.
Your husband will gain from reading Stop walking on eggshells. which you should avoid till you are further along in recovery.

Even if you don't have BPD you may gain from them.

Kol Tuv,
Aba


-------------------------
"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden

Edited: 11/24/08 at 6:43 PM by Aba
 
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Aba
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11/24/08 6:41 PM
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D&O
P.S. I'm always looking for husband who want to talk either here or IRL if you husband is intrestred please PM me.
Aba


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"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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downandout
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11/24/08 9:06 PM
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Aba - I appreciate your feedback. I'm having my next therapy session on Wednesday, and I intend to discuss this. Part of me hopes that's not it, and "all" I'm dealing with is depression, and part of me so badly wants to find out I'm BPD, just so I have something definite to go on - because everything else is so grey...
Thanks for the names of those books. I will look into them. And you should not have have said that I should avoid reading it now - because now I most definitely will. That sad, sad, sad wants to be even sadder and angrier.
About the husbands PMing bit - I'm sure my husband would love to, but... I can't let him. I've closed myself up in this shell - this is part of my own private world that I don't allow him into. Maybe if/when I'm further along? Thank you for the offer, though.


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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Aba
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11/25/08 11:01 AM
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D&O,
>I appreciate your feedback.
Your welcome
>just so I have something definite to go on - because everything else is so grey...
There is a reason the Gemarah says there is no simacha like the finding clarity (Ain Simacha K'Haturas Ha'Sfachos).

One more book which I think everyone should read is Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl I'm reading it now and it is really giving me a good perspective on my life.

Kol Tuv,
Aba


-------------------------
"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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justso
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12/10/08 1:32 AM
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yes, a diagnosis can be a relief for some. (But there is a lot of debate about the nature of BP in fact, I read in England/EU they use a differant label) for me I found that BD, PTSD, ADHD, & Bipolar have many similarities and DBT can help regardless. In fact I saw a book for high conflict couples that was DBT based. Bottom line, DBT (w/the adjunct therapy/coaching) and meds is helping. The clinic I go to also has other groups from which I learn a lot.

I continue to make headways with the DBT. We recently learned the module on Radical Acceptance , williningnes v. willfulness. It has helped me a lot with my obessing about my performance at work. The changes are subtle and slow but I'm staying mindful and alert to them. I liken it to going on a diet, people who go on quick-loss, crash diets usually gain the weight back and then some. There are participants in the group who resists using the skills and they want to stay in the kvetch mode. (I shouldn't say "kvetch" according to DBT that would be consider judgmentalness) we all have differant paces. It says in Pirkei Avot that we can learn from everyone, so I learn from others mistakes/struggles.

Group therapy is a must. One on one alone is only part of the picture.
 
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justso
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12/10/08 1:46 AM
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Originally posted by: downandout
Aba - I appreciate your feedback. I'm having my next therapy session on Wednesday, and I intend to discuss this. Part of me hopes that's not it, and "all" I'm dealing with is depression, and part of me so badly wants to find out I'm BPD, just so I have something definite to go on - because everything else is so grey...
Thanks for the names of those books. I will look into them. And you should not have have said that I should avoid reading it now - because now I most definitely will. That sad, sad, sad wants to be even sadder and angrier.
About the husbands PMing bit - I'm sure my husband would love to, but... I can't let him. I've closed myself up in this shell - this is part of my own private world that I don't allow him into. Maybe if/when I'm further along? Thank you for the offer, though.


D&O. I understand the emotional distancing. Everyone in group spoke about having this issue today. I'm slowly being more open to my husband. and he is being less critical with me. Tefillot is what did it! However, my MD wants me to acknowledge all of my effort in applying the skills and complying with my treatment plan.

DBT teaches Distress Tolerance Skills and Mindfulness. These are things that have helped me keep my equilibrium during conflict -- or just stam animated, passionate, loud speech by my husband -- which was a trigger for me. Big nes -- todah haKeyl!!! Fear of rejection or feelings of being invalidated is a main issue we work on. (we also are overwhelmed by our emotions.) This is where the impulse to enclose ourselves in a shell comes from.

I put links in my previous posts, check out the dbtselfhelp website, I think you will like it. By the way, if your therapist hasn't been trained in DBT or has a psychoanalytical orientation, you may need to explore other ways to get this. Usually its the public health clinics & hospitals that offer it. Managed Care programs like it because it reduces hospitalizations and the severity of symptoms; plus, rather than just talk therapy, it has a limited timeframe.
 
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emunahdoj
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12/11/08 3:29 AM
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Downandout...

I can relate to what you are saying so much. When you say that you so badly want to see FOR SURE that the other person really cares about you...i am the same way. And when you say in high school you kept trying to control...i do the same thing...i need to be in contorl SO much...
I don't know how to relate properly either.

I can't talk a nice word to him - and if I ever do, then I regret it immediately, because he's so happy that I've talked normally and not like a mean, mean person, that he thinks that I'll keep being nice - and I can't keep it up for so long. There's just this demon inside me that doesn't allow me to keep any relationships normal - it just wants me to be pitied by others and have caring, caring, caring - to the point that I mess things up with everyone and have totally unrealistic expectations and then just feel even emptier and sadder than ever...

That paragraph you wrote...ME ME ME. Exactly, it's a demon inside, you said it perfectly, that just does not allow relationships to be normal.
So do you go to therapy? How long have you been dealing with this? Have you always treated your husband this way?

 
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downandout
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12/24/08 9:19 PM
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Hi.
Sorry I haven't replied yet, I've just been somewhat out of things.
I can't believe there's someone in the world who feels exactly the same as me! I always thought I was completely crazy for feeling the way I did about relationships.
Honestly, my relationship with my husband hasn't always been that bad - it started off good - but began spiralling down hill pretty fast - b/c of me. I get overly tense and anxious about his habits, totally unable to tolerate them. I end up yelling, feel bad about it so yell even more, get all tense and worked up, unable to back down.... An endless cycle.
I actually had a good day with him today - my first day out of hospital - and I felt like I was on totally new ground - I'd never felt this open (and believe me, I wasn't so open) before.
I'm not really in any official sort of therapy for BPD - in fact my p.doc has not given me an official diagnosis for that. I guess just all the intensive inpatient therapy I've been doing, as well as the little bit of reaching out for support b/c of my depression, have all given me a sort of headstart for treatment. I am planning on doing some DBT eventually - but I do know that this is supposed to be really hard to work through.
Good luck to you, and let me know how you're doing. I really want to know if you feel better, or if you've done anything that has worked...
D&O


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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4702125952
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1/14/09 12:11 PM
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Would you mind letting us know where the dbt groups are taking place? I attended some at St. Lukes Roosevelt a few years ago. Im curious to know if there is something closer to home in Brooklyn.
 
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Debbi
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1/19/09 12:15 AM
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im at the st lukes program now.
just started.
did u find it helpful?
would love to know what u think of the groups and the therapists.
 
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4702125952
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1/19/09 7:20 PM
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I liked the St. Lukes Program. I only worked with one therapist, Helen Dwayne, and she was good. I would have liked o continue--only did one 'round' of the dbt and barely became familiar with the skills. Whatever I learned was very helpful, especially the fact that we have tohold two opposing beliefs in our minds at once. I've learned to 'chill' somewhat and not become so intense about my feelings.

How are you doing?
 
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Achdus
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12/13/09 2:55 AM
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Can you please give contact info for the dbt group you are going to. I think dbt is excellent and would like other's support.
 
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justso
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12/13/09 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by: 4702125952
... I would have liked o continue--only did one 'round' of the dbt and barely became familiar with the skills. Whatever I learned was very helpful, especially the fact that we have tohold two opposing beliefs in our minds at once. I've learned to 'chill' somewhat and not become so intense about my feelings.

How are you doing?

I am now finishing my 2nd round, and as a result, I see how important it is to do two cycles of the program. the clinic I go to instituted a "graduate dbt" group. Everyone who has graduated the dbt group appreciates having this grad group. I would suggest this to the institution that offered the dbt group you went to.

"to hold two opposing beliefs in our minds at once" that is amazing that you have mastered that after only one round. Kol hakavod. Stay mindful.


Braining: "Can you please give contact info for the dbt group you are going to. I think dbt is excellent and would like other's support. " Have you looked at behavioraltech.org (this is marsha linnehan's website) what kind of support do you need? Please look at my other posts regarding dbtselfhelp.org and recovery-inc.org
 
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