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TOPIC TITLE: Suicide
Created On 3/25/10 3:54 PM
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channafofanna
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3/25/10 3:54 PM
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Have any of your patients/clients ( i dont know whcih you call them- everyone is dif) ever killed themselves? If you talk to nutjobs all day how do you stay sane? Also, one last thing, people talk to you and say why they want to killl themselves, do drugs etc. dont you get convinced and want to do it to? Dont you ever feel like their lives are so bad they should kill themselves? or becuase theyre such horible people
(btw- its totaly ok if this question is 2 personaly- ill edit it if yo want)
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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3/26/10 10:17 AM
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As you witnessed before, I am fairly comfortable answering your direct questions directly. In general, I do not think people are better off dead. I am pretty creative at helping people find things to live for, and usually find that suidal ideation passes. Nobody in my practice has ever committed suicide (B"H), but plenty of people have felt suicidal. When I worked with geriatric patients in nursing homes, and in my work as the director of the cancer support network, there were times when it seemed that death would be merciful. Patients and family members frequently spoke of their desire to "end the suffering", as well as their feelings of guilt for expressing those thoughts, and I could definitely understand their sentiments. For me, that is when yiddishkeit "kicked in" and I would think (and at times share, if I felt the person was receptive), that I believe there is a purpose for suffering at some level, even if we don't understand it, and that I trust that Hashem knows what is best.
As for your question about maintaining my own sanity, lots of patients ask that question. First of all, I am a big advocate for clinicians to be in their own treatment, and I have gotten into some heated debates with colleagues over this issue. I feel strongly about this because I think therapists need a place to "dump their stuff", and I think it is important to stay in touch with what it is like to be a patient. I also feel that it is important to have a full life outside of work so that I feel nurished. If I didn't answer you adequately, feel free to follow up.
a lynn
 
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channafofanna
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3/26/10 12:10 PM
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yeah, that basicaly answers it, thanks
but just becuase your in therapy dosent mean your protected against the influences of your patients, and psychologists psychologists also get influenced- get it? so how does it help?
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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4/19/10 2:26 PM
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Basically, I think all therapists should be in therapy.
a lynn
 
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channafofanna
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4/24/10 11:11 PM
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i agree! thanks
ps: that was not in any way telling you your crazy. ive gone to about 8 therapists in myu life and only one was normal, so i agree they need help. but i actualy think your normal from what ive seen here- not LSW/psychologist/pdoc/T crazy (and acording to my parents thats imposible. becuase even i agree i am picky with the people i spill my guts to (exept of course online where everyone can see it
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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4/30/10 9:40 AM
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Thanks for the vote of confidence. Usually, I don't think of mental health as categorical; namely that people are crazy or normal. rather, I think mental health is more along a spectrum regarding various issues.
a lynn
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence. Usually, I don't think of mental health as categorical; namely that people are crazy or normal. rather, I think mental health is more along a spectrum regarding various issues.
a lynn
 
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yanky
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2/21/11 9:30 PM
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Hello Dr. Lynn,

On a rational level I understand and believe what you wrote about there being a purpose to suffering with suicidal thoughts and deep depression. My problem is that I cannot internalize that message, being that the part of me that is supposed to process that idea (namely, my brain) is the part of my body that is obviously not working properly.

In other words, I can deal with the physical pain of fibromyalgia by understanding that God wants me to suffer for some reason. But I cannot deal with the pain in my brain that for decades has been getting worse and now has me convinced that there is no other way out. If I have felt this way since I was a kid, why in the world would I believe there is hope that anything will change?

Bottom line.....either I will be able to endure this pain for the rest of my life (and with my luck I will live until 120) or I will need to take a trip to Vermont. Why Vermont? It is one of only two states in which you can buy a handgun without a permit.....
 
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mouse
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2/22/11 4:18 PM
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Not sure if I should say "Gee thanks for the info." or perhaps "TMI -- too much info." I'm right now in a similar place as far as seeing suicide as the only solution to a complex problem (both physical and emotional.) Maybe it's my fault; I shouldn't have read your post. Or maybe it was meant to be seen by me. Or maybe it shouldn't have been written so informatively.


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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downandout
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2/22/11 6:27 PM
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I would tend to agree with the last choice - it shouldn't have been written so informatively. I am also dealing with some similar thoughts right now, and it is extremely difficult to see something put so bluntly.


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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hugs
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2/22/11 8:13 PM
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Refuah shleima guys!!
I know this probably won't help but for years I felt the same way you did, even tried to actually do it. Things changed so drastically for me (dbt is amazing and found the right meds b"H). I just finished telling my therapist a couple of days ago how life feels great and that I feel like a different person. My point is that there really is a point to living and even if you don't see it now, it will be uncovered soon iy''H.
Please hang in there!!!!
 
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yanky
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2/22/11 8:36 PM
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Munkster & downandout,

I'm terribly sorry my post upset you. Had I known it would, I would not have posted it. I thought it was safe to write anything here. Apparently, certain thoughts should not be committed to writing......

Dr. Lynn, what are your thoughts on this issue?

Hugs,

Thank you for your encouragement. I really wish I could believe that I can have the same outcome you did, but as I said, after so many years of trying so many different things it is really hard to imagine....


Edited: 2/22/11 at 8:37 PM by yanky
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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2/24/11 12:33 PM
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Yanky,
I did not feel your post was inappropriate. People are dealing with all kinds of issues here, and when raw feelings are expressed, people are inevitably affected. This forum is like group therapy. My policy when running groups is that I encourage people to express feelings authentically, b/c I find that's what is cathartic for the speaker and the listener, and that's what motivates a person to change, and for us to reach out to each other. As long as people are not directly harming each other, I think it's important to express feelings. Many people have suicidal thoughts, and when people express it, I have seen many positive things happen, including feeling not alone, relief that the feeling was discharged, and it provides the opportunity for other caring people to challenge the suicidal "argument". I hope it is only a passing thought for you and others who feel suicidal, and am here to help and listen. Could you please remind me what your support system includes?
a lynn
 
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yanky
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2/24/11 10:42 PM
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Hello Dr. Lynn,

Thank you for your support and encouragement. I was pretty sure that you would respond as you did.

It most definitely IS cathartic to share my deepest, dark thoughts with others, especially those who understand what it is like to feel this way. I don't talk to my friends or family this way, as I do not want to frighten them. As supportive as they may be (regarding my depression) I don't think they could really understand what it feels like to have no desire to live. I believe humans are wired to want to live as long as possible, but for some reason my wiring is messed up so that I do not have this desire at all. I do not recite "modeh ani", as I feel it would be a total lie. I rue each day that I wake up.

I am seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist who are both encouraging me to do ECT. I have not responded to dozens of meds. and they feel this is my best option. I actually met with a pdoc (Samuel Bailine) who administers it and he told that whereas he would normally expect an 80-90% success rate, in my case he would say the odds of success are closer to 50-50. He said this because I have so many external life issues going on that would depress anyone (aside from the biological piece). He could zap me with a million volts of electricity, but that won't change the fact that I have so many problems (i.e. divorce, financial distress, house in foreclosure, daughter living in an arab village and giving birth to an arab child, fibromyalgia and other physical problems.....need I go on?)

I would take the 50-50 chance on the ECT, but I am afraid of the memory loss issue. I know most people have only minor problems with it, but I was told by a pdoc who administered it for ten years that a significant number of people do have memory problems. For various reasons that I would rather not write about, I still NEED my memory to be intact. Not to mention the fact that one needs someone to drive you to and from the hospital after the general anesthesia three times per week for 4-6 weeks. If I had a wife to help with this, it would make it somewhat easier to undertake. But I have no family nearby and I cannot do this alone, nor do I want to.

Therefore, as I wrote previously, there is a much simpler solution. Gun.
 
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yanky
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2/24/11 10:46 PM
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P.S. This is FAR from a passing thought. This is with me almost 24/7. Yes, my psychologist challenges these thoughts but I see no other option.
 
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mouse
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2/25/11 12:45 AM
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Seriously, I didn't know about the "Vermont Option" until now. But now it isn't leaving my head and given I'm not too far away.....it's tempting to do a quck vacation there now. Wonder if that's what the state intended when they made obtaining a gun so easy. I'm totally obsessed with this option now whereas before I had only a few other options that weren't as appealng. The more I think about it, I wasn't triggered; I just wasn't informed.


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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mouse
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2/25/11 12:49 AM
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For lack of a better way of saying it....you opened a whole new can of worms for me....and I'm diving in.


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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mouse
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2/25/11 8:07 AM
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Due to the last post I made on this thread, I have decided a few things:
1. Yanky is entitled to say what he wants...even if it does open a can of worms for others.
2. I am entitled to decide what and what not to read.
3. I therefore will take responsiblity for myself and not read further posts on this topic by people I deem "triggering of certain thoughts."
4. I still do believe a lot of harm has come due to that post. Judgemental as that may be, I still think there is a right and wrong way to do things here. Using a spoiler or something to make clear it is triggering would have been kind. However, just looking at the title of the thread, perhaps I should have been wiser.


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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downandout
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2/25/11 9:08 AM
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Well thought out and well said, Munkster.


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I want to love my life. My desire is what counts.
 
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yanky
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2/25/11 10:34 AM
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Munkster & downandout,

Dr. Lynn's support aside, I realize now that even here it is not "safe" to post such dark thoughts. Cathartic as it may be for me, if it makes YOU feel worse then it is absolutely not worth it for me. I will try to remember to refrain from such posts in the future. I feel awful about putting such thoughts into your head and even putting ANY thoughts into your head that make your feel worse than you already do, is not worth it.

I am terribly sorry I made you think this way and please, please do not think about acting on it!!!!!!

Please discuss what happened here with your therapist asap.

I wish you both a refuas hanefesh and I hope you can (still) have a good Shabbos.

Please forgive me.....

Sincerely,
Yanky

 
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hugs
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2/27/11 11:09 AM
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I wanted to start crying when I read this.
Yanky, you seem like you're hurting so much- I'm so so so sorry for all the suffering that you must endure. I hear why you would want to say here (about the guns in VA) and in a way I think you should be able to say it without being made to feel wrong about it. But then again I understand Munkster and downandout's point of view too.
I think an easy solution to something like this would be to write something like a warning before posting a comment that might be triggering.
I daven that everyone in klal yisrael should have a refuah shleima bekarov!!! I hope Hashem hears my tefilos soon!!!
 
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yanky
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2/27/11 8:32 PM
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Hugs,

Thank you for your sentiments. I know you were hurting plenty yourself and I am so glad you are feeling much better now. May HKB"H continue to grant you the menuchas hanesh you are now experiencing 'ad meah v'esrim shanah!

Btw, I will try and be mindful of your "warning' idea. I think it makes sense......I still feel bad about upsetting others......

Take good care,
Yanky



Edited: 2/27/11 at 8:36 PM by yanky
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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I hope everyone here can continue to give each other chizuk! It is an open ivitation to write me privately if you feel it may trigger others. Are you able to speak frankly with your pdoc and therapist?
a lynn
 
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channafofanna
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4/12/11 2:39 PM
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sorry to interupt, but im gonna have 2 say that i thin yanky put my feelings into words and it kinda made me feel better cuz i know im not the only one. plus i think that to go on an online forum thing you have to be open to getting depressed because, while im sure many people here are nice and genuine, there can still be a stalker or a shiksa pretending to be a BY girl or anything.
(BTW- I really am a BY girl- no im not a goyish girl, i was just giving an example!)
Basicaly , to go on the internet, especilay toa website full of suicidal freaks (myelf included- but you must admit were not normal otherwise we wouldnt have to wait or internet access to talk, and we would tell our best friends at least (if your lucky enough toeven HAVE a friend!), thn you must be willing to take the risk of hearing stuff that might not be good for you, but i am sorry it upset/ opend a can ofworms for you.
BEst of luck!!
 
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