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TOPIC TITLE: child abuse
Created On 4/27/06 4:00 AM
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az
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4/27/06 4:00 AM
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Edited: 5/23/06 at 3:16 PM by az
 
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Belly
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4/27/06 5:34 AM
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az
I Have different issues to work on than you, but maybe my input can help you figure out your situation. A few years ago I went to a therapist who like yours immediately stoped any looking into things, past,.... and came up with solutions on how to deal with situations. I learned alot,but and here is the point Now I see a different psychologist. I can talk about anything and she won't give me any solutions. Now I'm at the point where I think I cleared up all the issues from my childhood. I don't feel there is something bottled up that needs to come out. Now I feel that I could use some more advice in how to deal with my depression besides just taking meds. I think that psychologists often specialize in one field. The combination of these two approaches would probably be the best. I had the urge to talk about things. DOes it make them "unhappen" NO, Does it help to understand why I think, feel,.. a certain way? Yes. It on the other hand might no be enough to change my actions. THis is where behavioral/cognitive treatment has to be.
Ok I'm not professional, but maybe my expirience was somehow of help to you.
I'm waiting to hear from Dr. Lynn.
Belly
 
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Debbi
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4/28/06 12:16 AM
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Hi az,
I read your post.
And then I read it again, the second time with some trepidation.
I have many thoughts about your post, and many questions too. But before I say what I feel, I would like to commend you on your courage for opening up here on Frum Support and reaching out, to try and get the help you and your family deserve.

First of all I was wondering if you have ever been molested or abused when you were a child? And if you have, is your therapist aware of this?
Secondly, I am sure you are aware that under no circumstances can you allow yourself to give into these urges. It would be wrong, and cause untold harm to your daughters.
I think you really need to get some help on this.
I suggest you talk to your therapist today, even if you dont have an appointment, I think you need to call her TODAY and speak to her on the phone if necessary.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I can only imagine the torment you must feel at having these urges, to harm your very own child.

I myself am a survivor of s. abuse.
I am still trying to recover 30 years after the abuse took place.
Please, have the courage to talk to your therapist, and get the help you need.
I can give you names of therapists who specialise in child abuse.

Let me know.
I would like to help you in any way I can.
debbi
 
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silent
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4/28/06 12:53 AM
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Here are a few thoughts from a mother who's children were at risk:


Your posting has reached a deep chord within me, I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps it is fear, or maybe its relief, or sadness and pain, or maybe familiarity. Probably all of the above. I am on the verge of tears as I am writing and being flooded by the nightmare I survived not long ago.


Harming another person sexualy is a crime. You are fooling yourself (and perhaps those around you) by excusing these type of actions as being due to stress or tension or lack of release. No matter how much stress you may be under, there is no excuse for hurting a child or another human being with your problems. You need to take responsibility for your actions and control your urges.


I applaud you for reaching out, but I warn you to take a careful inward look at yourself. Are you being honest with yourself? Are you excusing your lack of control on the great strain you are under? Are you blaming those around you for the great strain you describe? Do you have a sexuall problem that needs to be addressed whether you act out on your desire or not?


For the sake of your children and klal Yiosrael, be honest with yourself, take account. Get yourself help if you need it. This may be something that is difficult (like other addictions) to overcome on your own. But there is help and support out there (and here, amongst us on this forum) to help pass this hurdle too.


And finally, you may need to take action to protect your children from yourself. You may choose to tell your husband of your problem and that you are seeking help. He can then help you to make arrangements to keep the children in a safe setting at all times. Just from the postings here (Bubbles/Debbi) and perhaps from your own past experience, you are aware of the devastating life altering effects these type of actions have on a child. Would you take the risk, let alone responsibility of exposing your child to such life-long pain, suffering, cunfusion and wandering?


Looking forward to hearing from you in this regard,
Silent
 
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az
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4/28/06 1:54 AM
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Dear Debbie and Silent,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. It seems to me that you may have misread a part of my message, or else you interpreted it based on a subjective response. Therefore, I'd like to clarify: I am B"H a person who has very good control over her impulses. I am also B"H an intelligent person, meaning, I use my intellect to guide me when that is what is needed. Nowhere in my post did I mention that I actually abuse my child. I did state that I have the urge to do so. As I see it there are people who equate urge with acting upon the urge, which may explain why you responded to me the way you did. I believe I have gained some insight from your replies to me, namely that my therapist may be equating "I have the urge to" with "I am doing this". To that end I thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. Mikol melamdei hiskalti. If there's anyone out there who can relate to my original message and has insight into aggressor identification and victim identification I'd greatly appreciate hearing from you as I am interested in exploring that. Thank you all very much for your support!
az


Edited: 4/28/06 at 10:11 AM by az
 
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az
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4/28/06 2:19 AM
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Too, I'd like to clarify what I stated about build up of tension. When I have the urge to hurt/exploit I need to have a forum for exploring that urge. That forum is usually in the context of the therapeutic relationship with my therapist. However, when my therapist engages in cognitive/behavior methods of treatment I tend to feel controlled (normal and understandable in my particular case; therapist in fact agrees that c/b is not helpful to me. But when I talk about these urges she feels she must utilize the c/b method). , and then I shut down. As a result of shutting down, those urges have been left unexplored; and the inner tension remains and mounts.
Silent, in your reply to my post you state, "You are fooling yourself (and perhaps those around you) by excusing these type of actions as being due to stress or tension or lack of release. No matter how much stress you may be under..." It seems to me you misunderstood my words. Firstly, what kind of actions are you referring to? I am only addressing "urges" here, not actions. Second, I AM making the point that due to lack of release (release would come about by processing those feelings related to the urges) I FEEL like abusing my child. The point I am trying to make is that I need a forum wherein I feel free to talk about my urges without anyone responding to me as though I have committed a heinous crime.
For those of you out there who 'get it', I thank you for your support.
And for those of you who misinterpret my words and react based on subjective experience, I hope you can explore that in your therapy...
 
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Debbi
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4/28/06 9:15 AM
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Hi Az,
I woke up this morning, and the first thing I did was turn on my computer.
I had a feeling that perhaps I had misinterpreted, and I am truly sorry for the pain that has caused you.
I need you to understand though, that I am not a therapist. I am my own suffering soul, who has been sadly abused in this manner, from the very people who were supposed to protect me.
Your post jumped out at me.
Frightened me.
Brought back sad memories for me.
And I responded.

You sound very inteligent and articulate. Your second post clarifies many things which were less explicit on your first post. I think that when someone says they have these urges, alarm bells would ring in anyones mind. On the other hand, this forum is meant for support. There are no rules about which subjects are "allowed" to be explored, so I think you have a legitimate request for support from others.

I'm rambling here, not sure where I am going exactly.
I suppose I dont understand why your therapist wont take your lead when you tell her that you need to explore the feelings rather than "do something about them".
Does that mean she refuses to try and understand where these urges are coming from?
If so, then maybe you should find someone else who is willing to do that kind of work.

I have experienced feelings that I have which would be wrong to act on. (such as rage against people in my life), but we have always worked through it, by talking about the feelings, and understanding where they originated. Even when I have strong feelings about children, My therapist has always made sure we talk and explore about the feelings. She tells me that its okay to "feel" as long as there is no acting out.

Anyway, I apologise again for not understanding the first time.
Please keep writing, and hopefully you will find some peace very soon.
tc.
Debbi

 
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az
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4/28/06 10:16 AM
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Debbie,

Firstly, no need to apologize.

Second, I'm truly sorry about your own pain.

Gotta go,
az
 
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silent
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4/28/06 5:15 PM
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Dear Az,

Thank you for your response. You seem to be a very strong person to be able to so clearly defend, protect and explain yourself against such "accusations."

I am not surprised by your response - meaning that from your original posts it didn't seem to make sense that you were on the verge of acting upon your "urges." Yet, from your wording, it wasn't clear whether or not you were able to act on those impulses. When you describe these feelings as very strong urges and with specifications and details, it raises flashing lights in me, the reader (and as you mentioned, perhaps in your therapist too.)

So, no I did not think that you acted on these urges, but I interpreted from your post that you may be on the verge of acting on these impulses. I am responding subjectively and reading your post with my own experiences under my belt. So, yes, I may be overreacting in your case and completely off the mark, but I am not coming at this from complete ignorance, on the contrary, unfortunately.

I understand that these feelings are a struggle and the source of much pain for you. As you are, no doubt, a responsible and caring mother it must be difficult to have such unexplored feelings towards your children. Perhaps there is another way that you can word this and bring this up to your therapist, without raising red lights in her head.

Thank you for posting and putting your thoughts out here for all of us to read, become aware of and understand. I am sure there are many others in your place who have healthy struggles with these issues for many reasons. I hope that you will find an open and comfortable avenue to explore these feelings and come to peace within yourself.

Please continue to post and let us know where you go with all of this.

Good Shabbos,
Silent
 
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az
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4/30/06 1:44 AM
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Dear Dr. Lynn,

I thank you very much for taking the time to read and respond to my post. I want to clarify one thing: in your response to me I'm asking for your feedback on my issue with the therapist. I would like to continue to see her but if this is her attitude I don't see it working for me. In considering whether to leave this therapist or not I want to understand whether it's her or me. Also, is there anything I can say to her to have her understand what I'm asking of her. I am a person who does not give up easily. I like to make every effort, and I wonder just what kind of effort is required of me in order to make this (therapy) work.
I look forward to your response, with much appreciation,
az


Edited: 4/30/06 at 1:50 AM by az
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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4/30/06 1:45 AM
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AZ,
I am glad you are posting your feelings and urges here and I hope you get helpful support and insight from others including myself. However, nothing you will get here can replace the in-depth work of psychotherapy. If you feel stifled and stuck with your therapist, then I think it merits discussion. Sometimes, when I am stuck with a patient, it indicates that we really need to talk about that ISSUE (like pain indicates a part of the body that nees to be addressed), and it does not mean the relationship is flawed in some significant way. Other times the stuck feeling is indicative of being mismatched for whatever reason, in which case, it is still important to talk about it, and perhaps a referral is made. As a therapist I am not so grandiose to think I am the right shrink for everyone. So, it seems to me that a review of your feelings and goals with your therapist is in order. It may not be an easy topic to initiate, but if your therapist is in the dark about what is going on with you, then for sure he/she cannot help you.
A Lynn
 
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az
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4/30/06 1:55 AM
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Dear Dr. Lynn,

Your response is very much appreciated and right on target, It "clicked" for me. There is no difficulty for me in initiating such a discussion, though I could use some help here. I have spoken to her about this and she insists that when I talk this way she needs to respond the way she does. I don't know how to continue from there. Would you have any ideas?
By the way, seems we were both posting at the same time. I posted my previous message before reading your response.
az
 
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gad
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4/30/06 4:35 AM
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az,

The urges you describe are quite common. The frequency may be because you are thinking about it and worried about it.

Our sages advise two cures for this.

1. Remove it from your mind. (And think about other things.)

2. Talk to someone who understands and cares.

You are having some difficulty with the second option. I hope your efforts will be successful. In the meantime, the first option may help.

Kol Tuv.
 
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az
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4/30/06 10:49 AM
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Edited: 5/23/06 at 3:19 PM by az
 
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gad
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4/30/06 4:03 PM
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To az,

I'm happy that you found an answer. It seems like a clear and interesting instance of how G-d provides a cure (in a dream).

May you continue to have only good and happy news to report in all your matters.


To Silent and Debbi,

A belated thank you for helping me to have more understanding and sensitivity in these issues. I hope that you find peace and, as Ernie often says, Menuchas Hanefesh; and that you have only good and happy news to relate from now on.
 
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az
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5/4/06 1:13 AM
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Edited: 5/23/06 at 3:18 PM by az
 
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Debbi
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5/4/06 1:33 PM
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Hi az,
I'm really glad to hear that you were able to help your therapist understand your needs.

Isn't it a good feeling to leave T's office with a sense of productiveness? I love those sessions.

I too suffer from nightmares.
I have been through times when I would have terrifying dreams every time I closed ,my eyes, even during the day. Always the same dream, of a disaster befalling the world, which only I can see. I run around alerting everyone around me. I tell them to escape before we are all destroyed, but alas, no one hears, no one listens, no one notices.
They look at me as though I've come from the moon. "what does she want?" they look at each other and shrug their shoulders.
And I continue to run and scream, shaking in fear because I know with certainty that I and all the others will get hurt.

I hate this dream!
I usually wake up with heart pounding, and sweat pouring down my back.
Not too difficult to figure out what it means.

My father began molesting me when I was 5.
I never told anyone because I must have known that no one would listen.
Even now, 30 years after the fact, I told my mother, and now she refuses to speak to me??
It makes me tired just thinking about it.

az, I confronted my father one year ago.
At first he aplologised, and then denied all wrong doing. He did however, reveal to me that a neighbor had molested him, when he was 3 years old.

All my therapists have told me that with that kind of information, it is 100% accurate that he did the same thing to me, even though he denies it.

I agree with you though, that he acted out his own pain on me.
B"h you sought help before you could Chas vesholom act on your pain and suffering.

Lots more to write, but I am feeling drained as i have just come home from my therapy session.

ttyl
debbi (formerly bubbles)

 
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