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TOPIC TITLE: Davening
Created On 5/6/13 2:03 PM
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star
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5/6/13 2:03 PM
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Im too angry to talk to Hashem because I lost all my trust in Him through depression.
I have been davening but turning my face away so to speak, not really communicating and sometimes even cursing him while davining.
What better, to daven angrily or not to daven at all?


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Dr. Price MD
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5/6/13 8:31 PM
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Whatever helps to ease your pain.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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5/7/13 11:51 AM
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thank you.


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5/7/13 2:02 PM
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How do I learn to trust Gd? Through learning to trust people first? I don't trust Him because he's let me down so many times in the past.
Or do I need to get well before I can trust Him again?


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Dr. Price MD
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It is easier in hindsight after you get well.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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5/7/13 7:52 PM
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But if its only when I'm over it, that I can feel the trust in Him, then whats the point because when I was sick is when I needed to feel secure and held by Him?


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Dr. Price MD
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5/8/13 12:08 AM
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It's not impossible but alot harder now than in hindsight.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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5/8/13 12:22 AM
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okay thanks.


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so first comes getting emotionally healthy and then with that foundation comes bitachon? like torah is talking to a healthy person so only if im healthy emotionally should i learn from it?


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really tired but still have questions please. Was talking to my sister about raising kids and I said I want my kids to be emotionally healthy and if that means they are not frum then that's that. My sister said well she feels her frumkeit is healthy emotionally for her so her kids will be frum. That's so not fair. Why does being frum get to be healthy for her and not for me??? Why couldn't gd create an extra handbook for people with MI??? Why do I have to be the loser who gets all the heterim to live?this isn't fair. Why doesn't the torah include me? It's like this exclusive club and oh if you have issues sorry not welcome. I don't need any of the **** that torah brings healing. Really? Show me where. Where is there one line that validates me? One line aint enough because truth is holistic. I'm really asking not just venting. Why doesn't the torah include me????


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Dr. Price MD
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The Torah presumes health. That being said, there is a Torah system in place whereby, since the times of Moshe Rabeinu, individuals ask shailah's to poskim as to how to apply Torah to their particular situations and lives. This is Torah. This process is what has kept Torah alive and relevant as opposed to some arcane collection of irrelevant laws. Heterim are not for losers. They are for everyone who wants to find healing through Torah.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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5/9/13 12:49 PM
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wow thats beautiful. thanks. so heterim allow me to find healing thru torah?


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Dr. Price MD
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YES! Beautiful.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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HopefulMommy
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5/9/13 3:16 PM
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I'm also finding this conversation interesting, and helpful.
 
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5/10/13 11:25 AM
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something still bothers me. its like well heres the handbook but the secret to keeping it ,is finding all the exceptions to the rules.


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Mimi1022
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That was a beautiful post about the definition of heterim.
 
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Dr. Price MD
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5/12/13 9:39 AM
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The exceptions are the rule.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
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what about mikvah- why did gd create such a triggering mitzvah?even with heterim the basics seem impossible to get around.
why would he be so mean to create such a triggering situation(the shame part and the stupid ocd rules.)???


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Dr. Price MD
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Rabbi Shmuel Naiman is a Dayan in Monsey who sees many people with OCD related to Mikveh and has been very helpful to make this mitzvah as smooth as possible.

Rabbi Price, M.D.
www.RabbiMD.com
 
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thanks. but why initially create such a mitzva that can create such tension and anxiety on surface level?


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Dr. Price MD
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6/5/13 3:11 PM
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I do not know.
 
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thanks for your honesty. it just bothers me so much that the mitzvos do not feel emotionally validating/comforting to me, actually the opposite.
i only want to keep torah if its an emotionally healthy place for me. like most kids that go off the derech do so because they had bad emotional experiences with their religious upbringing. i want to feel emotionally healthy with being frum. but it seems at every step and place i turn, there is another law or mitzva that is so emotionally triggering to me! Why would G-d want me to feel so emotionally upset with his mitzvos? Even with heterim, which you say allow us to find healing thru torah, why couldnt He have presented it in a way that is comforting at face value?
I still feel i am the sucker who needs heterim/will need imyh. And even with the heterim it is still so hard to be frum!
Does He maybe just want me to choose to do the things that make me feel good emotionally and discard the rest?
How is that a true thing?Isn't something true, true through and through???


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Dr. Price MD
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I do not know.
 
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thats the answer to everything? thats not fair. i deserve to at least know why to keep these stupid laws.


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I'mTrying
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You sound really upset, really angry. I completely identify with you. I don't understand why Hashem made us the way we are, and it seems like the rules in the Torah are there just to trip us up. It is frustrating and hurtful. Looking at this objectively , or as objectively as I possibly can be, it seems like you are getting caught up in the specific issues rather than looking at the underlying feelings that are causing you to be so so angry at Hashem. Right now our job is to do what we can, and NOT get hung up on what we can't.
Before the Yamim Noraim last year I asked a Rav who knows me relatively well what I have to do. He answered that I should just do/ pray what what I feel like, and DEFINITELY not to focus on the Al Cheits- just to kinda skim them. I then asked him How can I say I regret what I've done and I will not do it again if I know I will do it again, and I don't mean what I'm saying. He told me that I don't need to ask for forgiveness for the sins I coudn't have prevented. Being me, a perfectionist, and always thinking that I could've done more, done better, tried harder no matter what, I asked him how do I know which ones qualify? To which he told me that if holding back from something makes me feel bad (ie. could lead to depressive thoughts etc) then it's considered a sin that was not in my control.
Convoluted, I know. Just want to send home the idea that maybe Hashem gets it? And maybe He is more easygoing and compassionate than we could ever be...
Wishing you menuchas Hanefesh.
 
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To which he told me that if holding back from something makes me feel bad (ie. could lead to depressive thoughts etc) then it's considered a sin that was not in my control."....can u explain that more?maybe give an example?

thanks for identifying. and thats very comforting that maybe Hes more compassionate then i think. in the deepest part of me i think i believe that He really does understand when i need to watch tv on shabbos etc. cant believe im writing that here, with room to be judged.

thanks for your beautiful insights.


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I'mTrying
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6/23/13 11:52 PM
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So sorry it took me so long to reply, Star.
by holding back from something - I used it for my own stuff at the time like not dressing tzanuah, calling my psychiatrist on shabbos just to talk ( not applicable anymore, she dropped me) not davening at all etc.
I know there are Rabbanim out there who will clearly tell ppl that they are allowed to do certain things against halacha in their situation etc but my experiecne is that it's rare to find someone who will go out on a limb and explicitly say you may do something that is halachically forbidden.
But I know of a therapist who tells the teens she works with they don't have to keep shabbos- she got that psak from a Rav.
Wishing you much compassion from without and within.
 
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I'mTrying
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sorry, that was a liittle incoherent. Basically, there are responsible, Torah abiding and Gd fearing Rabbis out there who WILL give a heter to do something that for others may be a sin.
I guess the most important piece is recognizing God's compassion (something I need much work in as well)
 
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6/24/13 1:05 PM
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yeah i did get a heter from a big rav but im not exactly doing the shinui because it makes me feel resentful but i end up feeling SO guilty. i mentioned that i watched movies on shabbos to a 'friend' and she was shocked and i could tell she thought i was crazy or wrong. needless to say i will not be calling her again any time soon. and so my circle of people i trust gets even smaller.
thanks for replying.


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I'mTrying
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I for one will not be shocked or judge you on the basis of anything you say or don't say here. many ppl out there dont get it. You are not crazy or wrong, you are suffering and trying to undrstand, change, grow and become the best person you can under the circumstances, while constantly struggling with your demons. In my book, that makes you an exceptional human being.
the guilt thing is big for me, too, and I also don't exactly follow what I am told, causing even more guilt, but then I think that maybe the issues i"m dealing with weren't presented clearly when the Q. was asked? bc I tend to downplay my struggles ( don't trust myself) Do you think that's whats happening for you?
 
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Belly
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6/25/13 4:46 AM
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So here are my thoughts on the issues raised re Mitzvot.
I think that we all have our sensitivities and therefore each of us can react differently to different Mitzvot. Some will feel strenghtend, some OCD,....
For myself I can say that depending on how I feel I can understand the Mitzvot differently.
I think that Mitzvot are guidelines. Some we can keep easily, some are difficult and some we will hopefully keep in the future (meaning that right now for whatever reason we are not able to keep them, but hopefully in the future we will).
There is no way that anything in live will be perfect for everyone. And here come in the Heterim. To make the Torah perfect for everyone, Rabanim can give you a Heter. A Heter in my eyes is to find a way within Torah to keep on keeping Mitzvot. It's not an all or nothing deal. If you can call an ambulance for a sick why is this any different than finding a way to watch a movie if this is what you, your Doctor and Rav decided is best for you?
Does H stop loving us for not keeping everything? Noway! I compare H's love to my love for my kids. I can get upset at them and be angry, but deep down in my heart I'll never stop loving them.
So I really believe that H is there for us when we are suffering and H holds us. (Eventhough I believe this I do get upset and angry and ask why H puts us through this... )
I guess no one can pick and choose what problems he will have to deal with in life, but I promise you that there is not one person who has not dealt with chalanges. Life is not perfect and we have to take things as they come and try to work through them.
Yeah I know it's so easy to say these things, but so hard to do when you are down...
I guess having friends who have or are going through the same as I do helps. At least there are people out there who really understand your pain.
I hope you all feel better soon!
 
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