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Created On 5/13/07 11:55 PM
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Debbi
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5/13/07 11:55 PM
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I'm back after being in hospital for a while.

Things have changed enormously within myself, and i have become much more aware of the things I say, and how they could potentially effect others.

I am happy with my progress, but at the same am feeling very depressed and anxious. My therapist refuses to see me more than once per week.
She made this decision while i was hospitalised.
I feel abandoned and quite devastated.
I have been seeing her for nearly 7 years now, and throughout our relationship I have had sessions minimum 3-4 X weekly, and during difficult periods I saw her every day, and sometimes twice a day.

Now without prior warning she refuses to see me more than 1x a week.
She has explained her reasoning, which seem pretty rational.
I get it.
I understand why she did it, but my "feelings" do not comprehend.
I am experiencing lots of emotional pain.
Waiting one whole week for the next session is becoming unberable.
The minutes drag by, agonisingly slow.
I want to quit therapy, just so that I can "get it over with"

I have explained how I feel, but she is adamant that she knows better than I.

Its really hard.
I feel angry and sad at the same time.

thanks for listening.
Debbi

thanks for listening.
 
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Belly
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5/14/07 1:24 AM
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Hi Debbi

I can relate to your feeling of how am I supposed to survive a whole week till my next session? Sometimes it's just very hard.
Things that help me is sometimes I make my husband listen to me (if I think that he can listen to the topic I need to talk about) sometimes I just imagine being in a session and what I would talk about. By now I pretty much know anyway what my T will answer. Ok it's not the same, but it helps me getting over the time in better shape.

Do you think your T is right? Is it hard for you that you actually don't see her or is it hard that she is not available for you? Meaning she kind of left you. If it wasn't her suggestion would you be able to cut down on your sessions?

Debbi I don't know if what I said makes any sense to you and if it helps you at all. I'm just trying to let you know that I care and that I send you a big hug!

How is your family doing?

Hugs Belly
 
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Debbi
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5/14/07 9:31 AM
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Hi Belly,
How r u? Glad to talk to u again.

Your suggestions are good, and u are right on the mark when u ask if its difficult not seeing her, or the fact that she abandoned me.

Both of those are true.
I feel that it was not discussed with me prior to her ultimate decision. Aswell as the fact that I have just been discharged from the hospital, where I was getting therapy 6hours a day, to go down to 45min per week, seems too overwhelming. I do have a DBT therapist once a week, but its not the same.
My regular T is the one I have forged a strong relationship with over the years, therefore it is with "her", whom I need to lessen the amount of times I see.
I am too dependant on her, so she feels I need to cut down.
I understand that, and deep down I am glad that I have the opportunity to cut back so that my entire life is not focused only on therapy.
Having said that, it would have made the pain so much less had i been allowed to wean off slowly.

I feel hurt and misunderstood.
As tho she no longer cares about "me",other than trying to get me out of her office.

Thanks for the hugs Belly, and my family is B"H thriving.

Hope u r well too.
Haven't been able to follow posts for a long while.

take good care.
Debbi
 
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avious101
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5/14/07 6:14 PM
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welcome back debbi maybe you can write letters to your therapist and then give them to her when you see her next and you can discus what was wrong
 
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Debbi
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5/14/07 7:04 PM
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thanks avious
thats a wonderful idea.
You sure are smart for your age.

I actually used to write when i couldnt talk, and in beginning she would read, but then one day she said I had to read aloud to her during the session.
Well there was no point, and besides I couldnt get myself to read my deepest feelings out loud.

I am much better at expressing myself now, after years of working on myself.
BUT now i only have 45min a week to try and communicate all my emotions from the whole week.

thanx for replying, and showing an interest
take good care
Debbi
debbi
 
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qwerty
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5/14/07 10:45 PM
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Your outrage is understandable, considering she made this decision while you were out and she did not discuss it with you prior to implementing it. Allowing you to talk about it prior to cutting down might've been helpful to you. It's disempowering when someone else makes a major decision for us. A decision we have no control over. Tends to increase our already existing experience of helplessness and ineffectiveness.

So what landed you in the hospital? Are you feeling better now?
 
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Debbi
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5/15/07 12:27 AM
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hi qwerty,
thanks for empathising and understanding.

Regarding the hospital:
It came to the point that I was no longer being effective in therapy, and and I was self destructing on a massive scale, including cutting once or twice a day, for mths on end.
I was very intent on carrying out my suicide plan, and I guess I wasn't thinking with a clear mind.

Hospital was the only answer.
It did the trick, I feel alot less suicidal, alot less depressed, and alot more competent, and empowered.
I have made enormous changes during the last few mths of hospitalisation. I'm proud of all the very hard work I did.

Having said that, I am having a hard time dealing with this latest therapy "episode". I'm reacting in a negative way which includes self destructivenss. sigh. I thought I had conquered the urge to act on my feelings and reactions to different situations.

Alas I have not.
still lots more work to do.
wonder if it ever ends?
 
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qwerty
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5/15/07 4:03 PM
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Debbi, I'm wondering if there are children in the picture. That adds its own set of challenges to the mix.
 
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avious101
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it wasnt really my ideah i havea really good friendd who i owe my life to aand she was going to isreal and it was really whenn i told her a whole megilah of problems and she helped me deal and shre told me to write letters to her and then give it to her after so i just thought of it here
 
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avious101
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also be strong you can stop being self distructive we all are and you hurt the people aroung you wen you cut and do stuff like that the reason i stoped because it was making my parents a mess and you need to be strong for your family your friends and most of all for the people here if you have an urge just write it out here and talk i mean type it out maybe the urge will go away and theres usually from what ive seeen someone on if you wait a little bit i try to be on while im doing my homework and just pm the person whos on and i can olmost garente theyl at least try to stop you thats why everyoune heres so nice until i was here i was like i need tips for cuttin tips for suicide tips for bad stuf even though shhhh i still want tips how to bstarve myself but no one here is replying to thAT THREAD (IN THE PANIC DISORDER FORUM ) GO CHECK IT OUT AND PLEASE REPLY but ive now realized that its not all about making yourself cut up or dead life is about enjoying and living a true torah life you cant battle against loshen hora if your batteling to kill yourself you gotta be strong and strive to mmake the best of everything ok half of this was really nothing to do with anything but thatass the best i couuld do wehn i myself am waiting for just the right moment to purge
 
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frumsw
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5/16/07 11:08 PM
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Avious. I read your stuff, you bought tears to my eyes. You're an inspiration to us all.


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frumsw
 
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su7kids
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Wow, Avious, I have to agree, this was AWESOME.

I think you should copy it and paste it in front of you so you can see DAILY, moment by moment, what you are capable of.

You have tremendous insight, and I'm very impressed.

Thank you.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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Belly
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Hi Debbi
My session with my T was cancelled this week. I want to tell you that I was doing really well but when I realized that I won't meet my T this week my mood droped. Now I'm asking myself, why my meeting with her is so important to me. Do I depend on her? IS she supposed to replace a relationship that I don't have in "real" life.
Eventhough I'm very upset right now - for a few reasons- and feel pretty down, I know it's a matter of time and then I will smile again.
I hope you can smile soon too.

Avious I wanted to tell you that I also admire you!

Belly
 
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avious101
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wow thanx everyone but i dont understand what did i do that was so good ????????????????????
also you no waht else will make you cry in the insperation forum i forgot what its called but its even better cause im not that good and that was professionly done
and i guess i maybe have improved a bit on givein advice but it still is pretty bad i mean you three say awsome things sometimes two and trust me Belly you dont want to admire me i am such a bad person and i do aveiros all the time


Edited: 5/17/07 at 7:16 PM by avious101
 
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avious101
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oh by the way its called please read it moved me tons ininsparetion
 
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frumsw
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5/20/07 11:34 PM
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Avious, doing aveiros doesn't make you a bad person. It's makes you a human. You want to be a better person? You are trying to learn healthy behaviors? Hashem is THRILLED with you, He doesn't expect you to be a Tzadekes. Maybe you don't see it, but everybody here sees you have a beautiful Neshama and the healthier you get, the more it'll shine.


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frumsw
 
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avious101
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ok its really funny that you said that b/c in today in halacha the rabbi told us a dvar toraah and asked what we think of it and one girl said somthing like "we shouldn't belive that Mashiach will never come " or somthing like that then i said but we still do averios and no ones perfect and its almost imposible for all the jews to keep one shabos and then he said " do you think its either perfect or fail and i said yes aand then he said were only human and ever scince Adam and Chava sinned were not perfect so we shouldnt go through life trying to be perfect (ha ha o well i guess im doing evrything wrong ) all He expects of us is to be the best we can be
now frumsw i do aveiros on PURPOSE every day all day i could stop but i dont and i dont think Hashem is sitting their saying " look at avigayil she is great b/c she doesent stopp pulling out hair and picking her head nd not listening to her parents when they say to stop " thats a million extra aveiros a day !!!!!!!
 
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gad
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5/21/07 11:41 PM
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An aveira means that someone goes against what Hashem commanded us.

But if someone pulls out hair because they are nervous, then it sounds more like a medical problem than an aveira. He's not doing it to go against Hashem. Or to go against his parents. He's doing it because of a nervous condition, and he needs medical intervention to achieve good health.

Similarly with the world at large. Most Jews do not do aveiros to go against Hashem. They never had a proper education to know who Hashem is. They are considered "tinok shenishba," a child who was captured by non-Jews and never had a chance to know his or her heritage.

Our job is to try to help them. And to believe that Moshiach can come today, in the merit of all the Jewish people who have done so many Mitzvos throughout the centuries till today.

I hope this answer helps somewhat, and I hope we hear good news from you.
 
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avious101
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5/22/07 12:57 PM
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Gad-
but i also pull out hair just b/c i feel like it or just for the attention and stuff like that and i sometimes do do it when my parents say not i just do it b/c of them saying it
 
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gad
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Still, pulling hair sounds like something brought about by anxiety and stress, and not like you are doing it in order to go against Hashem G-d forbid.

You may feel like it because it relieves stress. And you may do it for the attention because the attention helps relieve stress. And when your parents say not to do it, or you anticipate that they will say not to do it, this may also be related to stress.

In other words, we are very complicated human beings. We have many layers, and inner feelings and thoughts which affect our behavior. And we are not always aware of these inner feelings and thoughts.

Sometimes doctors may try to bring these thoughts to the surface, so that one can deal with them instead of allowing them to fester. And sometimes doctors may encourage people to act in a constructive way (especially by helping others) and this can also have a beneficial effect on one's inner feelings and thoughts. And sometimes doctors will give medicine and/or relaxing methods, to help calm things.

And the Torah instructs us to listen to a doctor. And we then trust in Hashem that He will make the doctor's efforts succesful.

Have a good Yom Tov, and may you have good and proper health and merit to do many mitzvos with a happy heart.




Edited: 5/22/07 at 4:15 PM by gad
 
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avious101
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does the Torah really instruct us to listen to our doctors? b/c if it is that means i have no choice but to listen to my nutrisionist and i dont know about anyone else but i need to loose weight and i cant do that if i have to eat three meals a day aand exersize in moderation
but you no what i shouldnt do more avieros so i guess i should listen (sorry i was repetitive)
 
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gad
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You can ask your Rabbi for particulars.

For example, there are times when one should ask two doctors, and if they disagree, to ask a third.

Also sometimes one can ask a doctor who is a close friend.

And which doctor does one ask? In your case, it could be a question for a nutritionist, or general doctor, or psychologist. Or maybe all three.

So the best thing to do is to ask your Rabbi.
 
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avious101
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its ok Gad im not gonna ask b/c if i ask theyle say i should listen to them and then ill feel bad about not eating b/c i am fat already and i dont need some fat nutritionst to tell me what to eat b/c everyones telling me to eat three healthy meals a day but no one ever asked me if i mind pple making me fat
and its not fair and im gonna stop now b4 i electicute myself with my tears on the keyboard or someone hears me ut i dont even care anyymore
 
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gad
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Ok, so now you have a very good question: Why should you listen to people who are telling you to do things which you feel will make you heavy?

Maybe this is a good question to ask your nutritionist and your doctor.
 
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avious101
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i said that but they just said i have to trust them and that i can loose a few pounds if i eat healthy but i want to loose at least sixteen pounds not just a few
 
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su7kids
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I think you ahve to start somewhere, so lose the first few, and then see where you go from there.

Eat healthily. It can't hurt.


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Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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avious101
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but i dont want to eat healthy!!!!!!!!!
 
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su7kids
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i'm not sure what you want then.
You want to lose weight. The people who care about you tell you to eat healthily in order to lose weight, and you don't want to eat healthily.

I'm not sure what you want.

Do you want a magic pill? It doesn't exist. It takes effort.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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gad
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Quote

Originally posted by: avious101
but i dont want to eat healthy!!!!!!!!!


Why don't you want to eat healthy?
 
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avious101
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people are sayingh if i loose weight by eating healthy ill still have a healthy body but i want more than that i want - i more than want i need to be skinny not a healthy weight Barie in hebrew means healthy and fat so when people say im a healthy weight they mean im fat with a capitol F

Gad i dont want to eat healthy b/c i used to be not eating as much like i am now and i was ok with my body i was on the borderline of skinny 10 more pounds and i would ave been happy and i was almost happy with the way i looked then i went to inpatint ate healthy and gained 5 pouds then in a php still eating healthy i gained 11 pounds so here i am now with 26 extra pounds and if i eat healthy again ill probably gain more and healthy eating cant burn mussle fat i want to be ematiated that is my wish and if i eat healthy ill never look lake that
 
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su7kids
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Avious, do you know that as you mature, and go through puberty and the change of life, your body will change and you WILL put on weight, to prepare your body for bearing children?

You will never look like an 11 year old again, and you really don't want to.


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gad
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"what is a signiture? ...how do you write script?"

It's not the normal script signature. Sometimes people like to sign with the same name or expression, and this way they don't have to type it each time.


Su7kids raises an interesting point, which I'm sure you'll address.


I can now better understand your fustration. You gained alot and you want to lose it, and you're upset that everyone's telling you to eat in a way which you feel will not allow you to lose weight. And even though they tell you that you will lose a few pounds, you want to lose more. And you feel that you will probably even gain.

Maybe (if you haven't already) you can tell the nutritionist and doctor how fustrated you are about the meals, and maybe you can ask them why they are insisting that you eat this way.

Su7kids seemed to have a good suggestion before, to try to lose a few pounds and see what happens. And even though you feel you may gain, but maybe it's worth a shot to try it and see if the doctors are right. And maybe at that point (if you lose a few pounds) you can discuss with them the possibility of losing more. So this way everyone can be happy, even if it takes you a bit longer to achieve your goal.

By the way you write that "I want to be emaciated." Do you mean this literally, or just as an expression?

Have a gut voch, and I hope that you have good news to post.
 
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gad
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By the way, I think that most people say that it's better to lose weight slowly, because when it's lost quickly it can often be gained back soon, and with even more weight than before.


Edited: 5/27/07 at 12:24 AM by gad
 
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avious101
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you dont understand i Do want to look like an 11 yr old i do want to look like a piece of paper
Gad i really do want to be amaciated you no with hollow cheeeks and stuff i want to look like someone in the holocaust they are gorges more than beautiful to me but im not aiming for that im just trying to be skinny
and if i loose weight slowly ill have to suffer from being fat longer
 
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gad
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Ok, I think I understand much better now your point of view. And I think that the best answer is your own answer, which you posted before and which I am quoting here:


Quote

Originally posted by: avious101
does the Torah really instruct us to listen to our doctors? b/c if it is that means i have no choice but to listen to my nutrisionist and i dont know about anyone else but i need to loose weight and i cant do that if i have to eat three meals a day aand exersize in moderation
but you no what i shouldnt do more avieros so i guess i should listen (sorry i was repetitive)



I think you can discuss your feelings and objections etc. with the doctors. But if they still insist, then as you said in your quote, and as it says in the Code of Jewish Law (Shulchan Aruch), you have to listen to what the doctor insists. And if the doctor insists, then you should eat healthy.

 
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avious101
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theni guess its just more aveiros on my plate and more things to feel guilty about
 
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gad
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Why not put more Mitzvos on your plate?

Perhaps you can give a nickel or two to charity before candle lighting before Shabbat and Yom Tov.

Perhaps you can ask your parents to check the Mezuzos of the house (if they haven't been checked recently), and to check your father's tefillin.

And maybe you can find a top expert doctor, and ask for a second opinion.

Hope to hear good news from you in good health.

 
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avious101
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why do i need a second opinion when i know shes right i should eat healthy and that would be the right thing to do b/c by starving myself is jsut hurting my body and my family but im just... you no what? im just stuburn and dont wnat to change my ways im just like lot by pen tidbakani hara (s/tlike that) by when the malach says to go to Avrahams mountian he diddnt want to go b/c hel look bad cause hell continue doing the greatest thingds in the world im not gonna change my ways and then he goes and has kids with his daughters and gives himself a bad name im not planing anything with my father but all theese not so little things may lead up to me Chas Vishalom doing a really bad aveira or 2 or few (ok that was a really bad conection but do you get my point?)
i know im doing the wrong thing but im just not ready to admit im wrong about everything its hard enough when i have to say im wrong about little things
so for now maybe ill try slowly adding a little bit more to my diet (hey you just made me so mad at myself i just decided to tone my eating disorder down a bit (and i just admited i have an eating disorder) b/c deep down i no i have food isuses but im once again not readdy to admit it outloud to the people it really matters to b/c im sure im not hurting anyone here by slowly killing myself b/c i guess people just tend not to like me when i instatly love most people right when i meet them and it just hurts me so much when other people are hurting if everyone around me is happy (and i diddnt loose somthing and they won so theyre happy(oh yeah im also a very sore looser on the inside ) then im happy (oh gr8 now im bragging to) and i just wish that everyone can get better and just be HAPPY
 
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gad
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It's nice to see your concern for others, and also your efforts to improve your own health.

You deserve alot of credit that you are trying hard. And unlike Lot, you are making efforts and trying, and although all beginnings are hard, eventually one step leads to another.

"I guess people just tend not to like me." Sometimes we guess incorrectly. Certainly on this site I have seen that other people have a positive view of you as a caring and informed person.

Hope to hear good news.
 
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avious101
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wait a second im not sure you were talking about me ? im trying to get beter?
i may have felt that when i typed that but when my mother called me to eat dinner i was like so will i change somthing or will i not and i decided not to but my mother poured me apple juice and scince i stopped drinking everything beisdes diet coke water and tea (with splenda of course) b/c its to many calories but then i was like ok drink this apple juice and then throw it up after b/c i started doing that recently at nights but i couldnt throw it up for whatever reason its not important so for today i may have had 1/4 of the daily requierment of vitaman c but tomorow im not gonna do that im going to throw up the little i eat and im not going to drink applke juice so sometimes i get caught up in the whole do whats right thing but
oh continue later my father coming back in 1 min
 
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gad
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It must be very tough having this kind of struggle.

Maybe it will help you to know that every time you eat and drink healthy, you make me and others on this site very happy.

Hope you have lots of good news to post.


Edited: 5/30/07 at 11:41 PM by gad
 
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avious101
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5/31/07 10:31 PM
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so now you want me to come here and tell everyone that i ate enough?
oh and sorry i diddnt come back but my father needed the computer and then i was talking to pple about my new obsesion (wich i wont say b/c its to bad) and then b4 i new it i had to go to sleep b/c i thought i would get back from school later b/c there was play & a liel iyun but i came home only like alittle while agoor somthing like that and then i would be more tired b/c i have to have a blood test at exactly 8 and i have to come a half an hour early and scince i have no school tomorow i could have slept late so yeah idont even remember why i started giving this hole migilah but i think its long enough
bye have a gut shabos
 
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gad
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6/1/07 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by: avious101
so now you want me to come here and tell everyone that i ate enough?


Only if you want to. Have a good Shabbos.
 
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avious101
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6/1/07 10:03 AM
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u2
 
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avious101
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6/4/07 6:31 PM
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ok so i was thinking that id be a huge disapointment to evryone if i diddnt eat normally at least for a while and even b4 that i was like im gonna stop throwing up b/c i told everyone i had an ulsur b4 and now if i get an ulsur from throwing up people will no s/t is up so i ate normaly (almost) and diddnt throw it up until today happened
ok heres where everything goes from hopeful that i would sucseed to ok shell never get better at this rate
so i brought a dollar to buy a soup for lunch but the teacher that sells them was on a trip so i bought two snacks instead wich happened to add up to "ok laides and gentelman hold on to your hats cause what your about to hear will change your life forever..." a round 600 calories!!!!! and adding to that its my brothers bday B"H BL"IH and were having a cake tonight so i just had to throw up my dinner its a must and now im more at ease with throwing up so im gonna keep in the cycle of it and ive been thinking of starting it in school but if i get caught oh man am i in trouble so im deciding about that but not to worry its more to the no side
 
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gad
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6/5/07 12:13 AM
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You deserve alot of credit for your effort.

Sorry that it only worked to a point, but it says that all beginnings are hard. I wonder if you are comfortable with asking someone (doctor, nutritionist, mentor, close friend?) for advice about how to make it work better next time.

Again I feel that it took alot of effort and willpower to try to get as far as you did, and I hope that one success will lead to much more success.
 
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avious101
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6/5/07 6:37 PM
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thank you so much (very much sorry) (or maybe so is right??? sorry english isnnt my talent)
guess what ??!! it worked to a point again today!!!!!!!!! ok so i had a soup for lunch and then i was hungry for a snack so i bought candy (all without feeling guilty ) then i ate dinner and had a little bit of ice cream but then i looked back at all i ate today and was like wow that was a lot and then i went to throw it up and not to gross anyone out but only like the ice cream and like 5 noodels came up and i tried to do it again buut it just woulldnt come up only like a few noodels only half out so i had to pull it out of my throat and that was really gross so i guess its kinda good for me that i only threw up a little
and hopefully imy picking will get better in the same way b/c mitzvah goreres mitzvah or aveira gorrreres aveira (sorry i forgot wich one it was) and from a little stoipping it will become always stopping
 
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gad
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6/6/07 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by: avious101
guess what ??!! it worked to a point again today!!!!!!!!!


Thank you for the good and happy news.

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and hopefully imy picking will get better in the same way b/c mitzvah goreres mitzvah or aveira gorrreres aveira (sorry i forgot wich one it was) and from a little stoipping it will become always stopping


Both are right, one Mitzvah brings another, and one aveira brings another (Pirkei Avot, Chapter 4, Mishnah 2). As you point out, your Mitzvah (a little stopping it) will surely bring more Mitzvohs.

There is also an expression that someone who has 100 wants 200, and someone who has 200 wants 400, and so on. So in your case too, I'm sure that one success will inspire you to more and more successes.

Hope to hear continued good news.
 
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avious101
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6/6/07 5:45 PM
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wouldnt that mean i shouldnt try b/c ill always want more and more and ill never be happy so i should just acept the fact that i only have "100 dolars"?
 
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gad
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6/6/07 5:55 PM
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good question.

the answer is that when it comes to physical things, then as it says in Pirkei Avot, who is rich, the one who is happy with what he has.

So with regard to physical things, it's like you said, that when you are content with what you have, this brings happiness and peace of mind.

But with spiritual things it's just the opposite. The more Mitzvos we do, the more meaningful things we accomplish, the more we want to do. And a person is happy when he or she is able to accomplish more and more good things.
 
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