Login
Questions or Comments!
admin@frumsupport.com

Get FrumSupport News! Join our mailing list.
Email:


Search

Navigation:

 Tehilim List  < Refresh >
TOPIC TITLE: non jewish/religious therapist
Created On 10/28/07 10:59 AM
Topic View:

Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]
View thread in raw text format


fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

10/28/07 10:59 AM
User is offline

i've been seeing my therapist for 4 years. i never ever went that long before and i guess i trust her and like her. i still have some sessions where i just sit in silence the whole session, completely close down,cuz for some reason i cant get out what i want to say. but i'm much better than before and more often than not, i talk.
anyway, she specializes in eating disorders and bec i've had an eating disorder my whole life it's helpful to see someone who has experience with that.
however, i have seriosu religious "issues." i come from a BY school, from "yeshivish" family and after certain traumatising things happened to me when i was 15, i stopped feeling anything toward gd and religion. on the outside i look like a good frum girl but inside i have nothing in me. i dont keep shabbos, keep kosher only when convenient, etc...
my therapist isnt religious and cant understand any of this. i dont talk to her about it and the few times she brought it up, i told her i dont feel comfortable disscussing it with her. bec in her mind if i dont want to be religious, than of course i shouldnt.
i dont want to change therapists. my friend thinks i should talk to a rav, but i dont even know my questions so i dont think it would help.
i just am not sure what to do...


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



mouse
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1931
Joined: Oct 2007

10/28/07 4:48 PM
User is offline View users profile

I was sort of in the same situation. Looking back, I must admit that had I gone to a frum therapist, the outcome would have been more positive. I lost all interest in religion and God too but kept kosher and shabbos most of the time. I kept a kosher house just in case I'd change my mind and so friends and relatives could come (they were unaware I wouldn't wait 6 hrs between meat and milk.) Later, maybe 5 years later maybe more, I decided for a number of reasons to stay religous regardless of my feelings toward God (sounds hypocritical, I know.) After making that decision eventually I became religoius "inside" again. A secular therapist was very good for me to a point. But when it came to sorting out religious feelings, a frum or at least religious (actively conservative or reform) therapist may be helpful. I landed up seeing a religious reform therapist who put me back on track by sorting out the different issues (for me the killer was I didn't think it was worth the guilt issues connected to not being frum to become totally secular.) Perhaps, my reasoning was/is superficial but it worked for me and I'm still orthodox (although not as much as before). If I were to do it all over, I'd see a frum therapist to deal with the religioun issues or at least one that has religious affiliation. My original therapist also specialized in my probs. however she could not understand or relate to cultural or religious issues and pretty much messed me up for a few yrs. Another option is too consult a rav you trust. I don't think my opinion will be too popular here, but hey, that's me.


-------------------------

All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



su7kids
Senior Supporter

Posts: 485
Joined: Nov 2006

10/28/07 6:31 PM
User is offline View users profile

Just a reminder that believing in G-d is only ONE mitzvah. You can still do all the others without believing.

I can see where it is difficult to follow, and am wondering if its worth looking into other "branches" of Orthodox Judaism, like some Chassidish if you're not already, Litvish if you're raised Chassidish, etc. A different "branch" of Chassidish. You may find inspiration in looking at things different.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

10/28/07 10:02 PM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: su7kids
Just a reminder that believing in G-d is only ONE mitzvah. You can still do all the others without believing.



???

If I remember correctly, believing in G-d is not a mitzvah at all, but a prerequisite for all the mitzvos (Rambam?)
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

10/28/07 10:07 PM
User is offline

In my experience, a therapist, even a frum one, will not help you sort out your issues with G-d. That's not what they are trained to do. They are not qualified to give religious advice.

You need to find a rav or a rebbetzin you can trust and feel comfortable talking to.

Maybe you can start by talking to us here so you could clarify for yourself what your questions are.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



Dr. Lynn
Supporter

Posts: 52
Joined: Mar 2007

10/28/07 10:47 PM
User is offline View users profile

Are you saying that your therapist is not Jewish or not religious? There are non-Jewish religious people who are dealing with similar kinds of issues- feeling that they are "going thru the motions" of being religious; that is NOT a phenomena that is particular to Jewish patients by any means. That being said, I think that seeing a frum therapist can be helpful, not as a posek, but rather for a greater degree of sensitivity to the cultural/social/hashgafic pressures that a frum lifestyle entails. In addition, having a rav that is sensitive to the "Big Questions", like whay be frum? How can I believe in G-D when...? and Yiddshkeit and mental health?, etc.
a lynn
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

10/29/07 1:47 PM
User is offline

helpfulmommy- ur right. in no way would i expect the therapist to help me with my jewish issues but like dr lynn said, they would be more sensitive and understand me a little more. (for example, my therapist doesnt understand why i dont have a boyfriend, etc)

su7kids-hm maybe i should start doing basic mitzvos anyway, something to think about...

munkster-i here what ur saying but i dont want to change therapists now=( i guess what im saying is i dont want to switch therapists but at the same time she doesnt really understand the religious way of life. but she understands everything else. my goals, my eatingdisorder, depression, self esteem, etc...

dr lynn-my therapist isn't religious. im assuming she's jewish because of her last name but she doesn't know anything(beside what i tell her) about judaism/orthodox way of life.

i wouldnt know what rav to speak to or even the questions to ask. im living my life being fake. looking like someone i'm really not. its not a good feeling at all...



-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



frumsw
Senior Supporter

Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2006

10/29/07 2:02 PM
User is offline

Dr. Lynn, which Rov is 1. capable of answering these questions in a sensitive manner 2. is accessible esp. to women (catching them after Maariv is not an option). I found a great Rebetzin who helped me sort out some issues but she's so "good", she's naive. I found when asking for relatively simple things, like a heter, I had a hard time finding somebody to ask who won't make me feel like 2 cents.


-------------------------
frumsw
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



bubbs96
Supporter

Posts: 151
Joined: Aug 2007

10/30/07 1:32 PM
User is offline

fighter, i REALLY related to what youre talking about. i've been thru 11 (i think) therapists in my life....running the gambut of jewish, non jewish, frum, secular, and (the one i laugh hardest at) one who was raised frum, became reform, but was out to prove to me how much she knew about frumkite. oish.

my current therapist, who is a BLESSING, is not jewish. she specializes in ED's (clearly what i need) and has experience with my other diagnoses, and has been very helpful with ptsd, grounding me during flashbacks, etc....so, clinically, i KNOW this is the right match. i also have learned, through my experiences, that I WORK BEST WITH A NON-JEWISH THERAPIST. I like the fact that she doesn't have preconceived ideas about what my religion is or should be. I like that i have to/get to teach her things as we go along. I don't want my therapy to be about "having emunah", unless *I* bring that up....and a good therapist will respect their patient's religion, lack of it, or questioning of it, for what it is and how it is functioning or malfunctioning in their life.

That said, I have my own issues and questions about religion, G-d, certain practices, etc....I tend to go thru a major religious/existential crisis around rosh hashana time every year....and as much as i talk about it in therapy, I know that my therapist is ultimately not the one who is going to be able to help me with it....that I need to find a rabbi. But, like you, I can't quite find words for the questions I have, and I can't figure out who to ask.

I think these religious struggles are an important part of healing, but they don't necessarily have to be part of therapy...and perhaps maybe even shouldn't be part of therapy.

Just my two cents....


-------------------------
"Recovery is a process, not an event."
Even when it doesn't look like it, I am trying, and I'm doing my best in the moment.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

10/30/07 9:49 PM
User is offline

thanks bubbs for ur post. really=) it feels good to know someone relates to me.


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
Psychologist

Posts: 914
Joined: Feb 2005

11/1/07 12:36 AM
User is offline

There are a few Rabbi's and Rebbetzin's who I have had personal experience with in the NYC area, who are sensitive and respectful when trying to address the "Big Questions" of a person's spiritual journey. The common quality seems to be that they are to a greater or lesser degree involved in kiruv. Rabbi Chaim and Rebbetzin Leah Kohn in Flatbush, Rabbi Yakov and Rebbetzin Peshy Neuburger in Teaneck, Rabbi Eisenman in Passaic, Rabbi Teichman in Paramus, in addition to the Rabbi's at Aish HaTorah and Ohr Somayach in Monsey. All of these people are extremely sensitive and committed to the Jewish people.

On a different note, in my experience, unless the person is in therapy purely for symptom elimination, then religious issues and questions inevitably come up in the therapy room, since religion, especially yiddishkeit, is so intertwined with how a person sees himself and the world. However, as a therapist, my role is clearly NOT to make people more frum, just as it is not my role to make people stay married. So, I think it is important to have two people (a shrink and a rav), since they should not fulfill the same functions. Some people disagree with me, and I have had debates, but I maintain that a rav who does "counseling" should be clear with the patient (and HIMSELF) about which role he is fulfilling.
a lynn
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



frumsw
Senior Supporter

Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 2006

11/1/07 11:50 AM
User is offline

It's a matter of taste. I hate to waste my therapy time/dollars teaching a non-Jewish or non-frum therapist about my religion and sometimes having to censor things bec. it can be a Chillul Hashem or misunderstood because they have such a different mindset.


-------------------------
frumsw
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

11/1/07 2:11 PM
User is offline

thanks dr lynn. i guess it's a matter of deciding if i want to see a rav to discuss religion.
lol in therapy yesterday religion came up again. she didnt understand why i didnt want to talk about it...ughhhhhhhh


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

11/1/07 7:08 PM
User is offline

I also prefer a frum therapist, just because I am more comfortable with her. But I don't feel that she can help me with religious issues.

I should also mention that I know a great person to talk to, who is a rabbi and who is very good at religious questions. He charges almost as much as a therapist for a private consultation, so you have to motivated. You can pm me for details.

Perphaps the reason Hashem gave us this nisayon is so that we should question and search for answers. There was a time in my life when I thought I had perfect emuna and bitachon and didn't understand how people can ever question G-d... Then my life got more complicated, and I realized that my relationship with Hashem was far from perfect. In a way, it's a step down in order to go up. Now I know that I need to work on emuna and bitachon, and hopefully, have a much more real relationship with Hashem than before.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

11/1/07 9:39 PM
User is offline

i'm not sure i'm motivated enough to pay him.
the only thing that concerns me is that as im getting healthier with my body and recovery from my eating disorder, i realize i can start dating. but i cant bec i have no idea of what kind of guy i want to marry in terms of religion. so...thats a problem


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



su7kids
Senior Supporter

Posts: 485
Joined: Nov 2006

11/1/07 9:41 PM
User is offline View users profile

Fighter, really good that you're healing. Does your community allow you to wait before dating? Maybe you should get this recovery well under your belt and then start looking at where you're coming from and what you want.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

11/2/07 9:55 AM
User is offline

I agree with su7kids. I understand what you are saying about marriage, but before you even start thinking about that, you need to resolve your religious issues, or at least begin resolving them. Otherwise, it will not be fair to your children.

I suspect that if you are anything like me, your main question is, What does Hashem want from me? Right now you are probably asking it in an angry way. How can G-d, who is supposed to be kind and merciful, make me so miserable? What did I do wrong? Wasn't I kepping his mitzvos? Isn't He supposed to help me if I keep mitzvos?

You might feel guilty for asking these questions. But ultimately, this question, what does Hashem want from me, is exactly what Hashem wants you to ask! Eventually, you will get to the point of asking this question without anger and with sincere desire to do His will.

If this speaks to you, I can recommend some books. Right now, I am reading Thoughts for the Jewish Heart by Rabbi Ezriel Tauber. He talks about these questions. (Warning: if you are like me and start feeling guilty when reading this book, remind yourself that guilt is produced by the yetzer hara and you are not going to fall for it .)
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

11/4/07 11:09 AM
User is offline

I agree with the two previous posters. Since there is uncertainty about whom to marry in terms of religion, it is therefore important to first get reaquainted with the religion. I'm sure that the improved state of health will enhance the ability to have a comfortable feeling with Yiddishkeit.

May G-d grant you peace of mind and an excellent shiduch in the proper time.

Hope to hear good news.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

11/5/07 2:53 PM
User is offline

amen gad!
i know i need to straighten the religious issues out. i told myself i'd keep shabbos this week even if i didnt feel like it, but then i felt lonely at night and texted a friend i know from inpatient hospital.
i dont know what i want w my life.
im obviously not dating.
su7kids, it doesnt really matter what my community allows,lol. im from flatbush. what does that mean? its accepted to start dating at 18 or 19. people are starting to ask more questions about why i'm not dating but none of their business. i cant date a frum boy if im not even keeping shabbos! so yeah...
thanks hopefulmommy, i agree with what u say...


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."

Edited: 11/5/07 at 2:53 PM by fighter88
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

11/7/07 3:30 PM
User is offline

Maybe this week you could try to plan something to do on Shabbos so you won't feel lonely. Maybe a good book, or visiting a friend or something.

It's OK not to know what to do with your life. Lots of people much older than you still don't know . Keep searching...

Good luck!
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



motcha
Supporter

Posts: 182
Joined: Dec 2004

11/12/07 1:03 AM
User is offline

One therapist who wasn't frum said the following to me in our first session.
"I am a multicultural therapist. That means I try to understand your culture and work with you within that framework. I am not here to impose my culture on you."
I think you might want to tell your therapist how you grew up frum and want to continue working within the gramework of that lifestyle.
It is also important for us to remember the following: When we have emotional problems we often lose pleasure in many of life's activities. So its no surprise that we lose pleasure in Yidishkeit. Why should Yidishkeit be any different? (Also, don't blame yourself for not enjoying Yidishkeit. Its part of your temporary condition.)
We really deep down want to enjoy Yidishkait just like we want to enjoy everything else we used to enjoy.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
Psychologist

Posts: 914
Joined: Feb 2005

11/12/07 2:06 AM
User is offline

Everybody is making great points! Thank you for posting!
a lynn
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

11/12/07 11:05 PM
User is offline

motcha, i dont want to feel like i'm rationalizing my behaviors. certain traumatic things happened to me in 10th grade and after it happened, i slowly stopped davening, etc etc....and i have given it time, am getting my health and life back, but i dont think i can make excuses because it's almost 4 years later and it's not ok that i'm stuck in self pity and misery. my dad flipped out when he got my phone bill and when i mentioned that i dont care anymore after what happened(a million years ago), he said, get over urself, it happened ages ago, do u want a life? or ur gonna be stuck here forever? and he's right. maybe he wasn't understanding and maybe i need to work on actually TALKING about what happened instead of repressing it and just not talking about it, but when it comes down to it, i need to get over it and start figuring out what i want.
i wish my therapist would have had that conversation with me about culture. i would've felt so much better. but it's not that bad bec we dont talk about religion too often anyway.

hopefulmommy-this past shabbos i ran out of the meal friday night crying(hormonal?lol) after the fight with my dad so when i got home i felt SO ALONE and wanted to be able to call or go to a friend. but i couldnt do that bec i wasnt gonna show up at a friend's doorstep crying. and...i texted and purged. and felt better.(the purging was what really calmed me down but im trying to stop that habit).
anyway,
i guess my next step will be......... umm...
keeping kosher?
shabbos?
not texting?
i dont know. i think i just dont care about religion. i only care bec it affects family and my future. but not bec i care about religion itself...


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



motcha
Supporter

Posts: 182
Joined: Dec 2004

11/13/07 12:52 AM
User is offline

Can you go to a friend for Shabbos?
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

11/13/07 6:32 PM
User is offline

kosher sounds nice, if you're comfortable with it.

Someone once told me that when bad things happen, faith suffers a lot.

I hope you will soon heal completely, and that it will then be easier to do the religious things.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

11/13/07 9:39 PM
User is offline

fighter,

I don't know what your relationship with your father is like. Is there any way to explain to him what to say and what not to say so you don't end up fighting? Many men don't really understand how women deal with emotions.

If you had something traumatic in your past, you can't just forget about it and move on. You need to talk about it and work through it so it doesn't affect the rest of your life.

I don't know about your next step in observance. Maybe before you move on to the next step, you could try to reestablish your relationship with Hashem? Maybe you could try davening, or saying Tehillim, or just talking to Hashem in your own words. It's hard for you not to text on Shabbos because you don't feel that it really matters. If your relationship with Hashem was stronger, you wouldn't need to do it.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

11/13/07 9:41 PM
User is offline

gad,
i think i'll work on kosher. bec its really not hard to do when u live in ny. i just need to work on milchigs and fleishigs, and gum.
i hope so too.

motcha,
i dont like going to friends often bec i dont like leaving my mom alone by herself for shabbos. and when i go away i like to go to my dad since i dont get to do that often. and i get a real shabbos and meals with my family, being around my baby sis, etc...i do like it


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

11/15/07 12:59 AM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
Everybody is making great points! Thank you for posting!
a lynn


Thank you for your encouragement. It is most appreciated.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

11/15/07 1:02 AM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: fighter88
gad,
i think i'll work on kosher. bec its really not hard to do when u live in ny. i just need to work on milchigs and fleishigs, and gum.
i hope so too.


That's nice to hear. Hope it goes well for you, and that in general you have good news to post.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/2/08 9:32 PM
User is offline

i had long conversation w my therapist about religion. because it's been a focus for me and a worry lately and i just talked about it.
i feel really ugh about the whole thing.


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

1/3/08 8:29 PM
User is offline

I know that you are trying to help yourself by going to a therapist, and that is understandable and important. But confiding in a non-religious therapist about religion is like having a tax problem and, instead of going to an accountant, you ask your doctor. Or worse, you ask someone in the IRS for advice.

You may want to consult with a religious person who understands you.

Also, feel free to post your religious concerns here.

Hope to hear good news.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/4/08 12:50 PM
User is offline

ok this is what happened-

i decided to write about the school in hopes that it would enlighten me about my religious issues. i dont know what it did, maybe u can help me out too....here it is:
I don’t particularly feel like writing because I feel very apathetic about what happened almost four years ago. If I start writing about it I’ll probably feel very uncomfortable so maybe I’m less apathetic than I’d like to think I am.
When I think about “the school,” what sticks out in my mind are a few different scenes. Besides for the countless times I was made fun of for being jewish, besides for the times when kids threw pennies at me and told me “go get it, kike,” besides for times like those, these are a few different scenes that stick out most.
Scene 1-
Tyler( another student[patient?]) was feeling angry; maybe because I was talking too much, maybe because I got a better grade or knew an answer she didn’t know…whatever the case is she grabbed me and put her arms around my neck and started choking me. I couldn’t breathe until they got three guards to get her off of me. She yelled at me that she’d come get me when I was sleeping. I called abba up, crying for him to pick me up because I was scared she’d kill me in the middle of the night but abba told me- “I can’t, what do you want from me? Take it up with your mother.” But you’re my abba!!!! What about you??? How could you sit around and not do anything to help me? Please abba help me….
Scene 2-
I came to the interview where they assess if “the school” was a good place for me. I tried to tell them that I was doing better, working on myself, that the overdoing the diet pills, suicidal issues and cutting were a thing of the past. I was starting eating disorder recovery, feeling better emotionally and picking my life back up. But they wouldn’t listen. They just kept shouting things(3 men), telling me that 5 months ago isn’t long ago, how do I know I’m fine, etc etc… I tried to make them understand it was my PAST. But my mother overpowered the entire session, telling them the worst of my behaviors, embarrassing me, making it all seem worse than it was. And I just sat there defeated. No one listened. I tried to talk but still no one listened. They thanked me and said they were impressed with how I dealt with all their accusations. Um….thank you?
Scene 3-
My first roommate asked to borrow my clothes. I let her because I didn’t know how to say no. She returned them a couple days later stinking of cigarette smoke and drugs. When she asked to borrow another skirt, I told her I’d rather not lend out my clothes. She yelled at me and I left the room. I came back a while later and saw my drawers flung everywhere. Then I peeked out the window and noticed ALL the girls in my school huddled over my diary. I ran downstairs but it was too late. They read it out loud and laughed. I tried to get it back but they kept passing it around and reading page after page of my secrets, my emotions, my life, my inner self. I don’t know how to explain the shame, embarrassment and helplessness I felt.
Scene 4-
I asked to switch rooms because of what happened and my new roommates consisted of one girl who saw Chinese people coming to get her and would keep us up all night talking to herself, another girl who had tourettes and mental retardation, and a schitzophrenic girl who was so dirty and used to dangle her feet in my face while she yelled at the hallucinations. This is where my mother put me. This is where I lived for 4 plus months, while no one, NO ONE did anything to help me get out. I was trapped and felt (and still feel) that I must be crazy and something must seriously be wrong with me if my mother felt that she needed to put me in such a place. One really hard thing is that my mother never apologized to me or at least ADMITTED SHE MADE A MISTAKE. Even after I told her what happened, she never said she made a mistake and that hurts so much. (Now, I understand why chassidish people shelter their children. Look at the garbage I was exposed to and the people I was surrounded with. It changed me from a frum BY girl trying to do the right thing, into a bitter and cynical person who feels too far away to ever come back)
Scene 5- I had to go on a class trip about the prevention of AIDS. Only one other boy was allowed to come because everyone else had gotten into trouble for taking drugs or doing something else. I went into the backseat of the car and Richard climbed in right next to me. The staff counselor turned on the radio to booming loud rap station. Richard put his hands in my shirt and I told him to stop. He said he couldn’t help it because I was so beautiful and he was horny. He pointed to himself and tried to make me touch it but I pulled away. He kept touching me and I froze and couldn’t stop him and he moved his hands----------------unnecessary details.I felt dirty, out of control, and bad, like I did something wrong.
But what hurts more than all of that is my conversation with mommy-
Me: (crying)mommy, take me the f home.
Mommy: if you curse again I’m going to hang up.
Me: f that, mommy please help me.
-dial tone-
Later she called back and asked if I was ready to stop cursing. I told her about Rich touching me and how after I told the counselor about it, he went around to the whole school telling them I was a slut. I told her I was scared because he kept threatening me….and she told me that I was making it up to get attention because I wanted to leave.
I tried to tell her but she didn’t believe me. I was trapped. Trapped in a place where no one listened to me. Trapped in a place where I had started recovering from my eating disorder to a place where I literally woke up purging and went to bed purging because it was my only escape from the hell I was in.

after all this happened i changed. i guess imk angry at gd but i'd like to think its deeper than that.
im gonna speak to my rabbi(u know frumteens-the rabbi mod? he's my rabbi)on motzei shabbos so i'll see if anythign comes from it. and im gonna show my therpaist this journal entry minus the part about chassidish ppl.


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

1/4/08 2:31 PM
User is offline

I'm crying for what you went through.

I hope that you are soon able to escape your trap, and move on to a brighter and friendlier life.

 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/5/08 10:34 PM
User is offline

so i'm meeting my rabbi in the city. right after therapy lol. ironic?
but anyway, i'm a bit nervous.
first of all i hate eating in front of people other than close friends and some family and we're going to a place that isnt like a healthy place, more like a fast food restaurant and i dunno...i feel weird eating this huge sandwich in front of him....LOL i guess i'm more nervous about whats going to happen...


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

1/5/08 11:58 PM
User is offline

Maybe you can order a salad. Or tell him you just ate before, and nurse a tea.

It may be more relaxing for you if you view this like eating in a fast food restaurant: If you don't like the food or atmosphere in one restaurant, you can always go to another. Similarly, if you are not happy with his advice, there are other experts out there. And you can also post on this forum.

Hope to hear good news. Have a gut voch.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/16/08 8:16 PM
User is offline

*big hugs*
how did the meeting go?

i stopped seeing my therapist because not only could he not relate to religious people, but he kept putting them down! and i have so many questions that i need to ask! so appathetic about everything, yet so scared at the same time.

lots of similarities in what you wrote and how i feel. or more like lack of feeling.

im seriously proud of you for making the effort in therapy and with meeting the rabbi. im kinda interested to hear what he said because i've been tryin to convince myself to do the same thing for a while but i've been a lil too scared (all the more reason why i'm so proud of you for doing it). was it worth it?
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/17/08 10:04 PM
User is offline

hey kly!
thanks for the hugs=)

what ur t is saying is so inappropriate! im glad u stopped....please find someone else though! if u live in ny i might know a few ppl if u need any suggestions. if not, no prob!

so anyway, my rav basically told me(he was awesome btw) that what i need is to "frum up my life." he told me i need to associate more w jewish people, stop talking to my non jewish friends, etc. and he said that he thinks i know whats right and he says that i know he can give me all the proof in the world why the torah exists etc but he says i just need to be in a more frum environment and thats the answer.

what are ur issues w frumkeit?

was what worth it?


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

1/18/08 12:16 AM
User is offline

Fighter,

I just saw your post about the school. (((HUGS))) I am so sorry for what you went through! I am amazed at how you were able to rise above such a horrible experience and get to where you are now, looking and soul-searching and meeting with your rabbi and basically living a real, fulfilling life. It's perfectly understandable why you would be angry at Hashem or feel disconnected from Yiddishkeit. It's a long journey to get back to Hashem, and to yourself, and I'm in awe of you for undertaking this journey.

If it helps you to write about it, then keep writing. Getting your emotions and experiences out on paper might help you sort them out.

You wrote that no one listened to you back then. You yourself have to become the person who will listen to you right now. Don't dismiss yourself, or your feelings. They are real. They need to be acknowledged and dealt with. Try to give yourself this unconditional acceptance and understanding that you didn't have back then.

Was your therapist helpful when you showed her what you wrote? Was your rabbi able to help you with your anger with Hashem?
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/18/08 12:33 PM
User is offline

hey hopefulmommy,
thanks for ur reply=)
um first of all i agree, i really do try and "listen" to myself and not judge any feelings i have.
i didnt talk w my rav so much about the anger toward Hashem i felt. i dont feel it right now. i dont know if its cuz im supressing it or bec talking helps.
my therapist was good about it. she told me that now she understands why its so hard for me to talk and why in the beginning we had like a million sessions where i was silent, why it takes almost nothing for me to close up....bec i tried for so many years to express my feelings but no one listened so i stopped trying.
i think that makes sense, no?


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/18/08 4:35 PM
User is offline

sadly i don't live in ny. i say sadly because it seems like everyone knows good therapists in ny but i dont know anyone who even has a therapist here where i live. oh well.

when i asked if it was worth it i was talking about the effort to see your rabbi. you said you were a bit nervous if i remember correctly. but it sounds like it was.

sorry i'm gonna have to continue this message by starting a new one because my computer wont let me enter really long messages for some reason... (it doesnt let the page load if they're too long)....


Edited: 1/18/08 at 4:36 PM by killedlastyear
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/18/08 4:35 PM
User is offline

i guess my main issues are that i just don't care, i've had negative experiences with religious schools and people, nothing was every explained to me correctly. no one's ever showed me proof that god even exists and i could NEVER ask for such a thing in the school i attended elementary-high school. i went off to israel after high school to a school that just was NOT for me. i just stopped doing anything or caring about anything and ever since i've just been that way. i have plenty of questions but no one to ask and i'm too shy to ask for recommendations of someone who would be able to answer them.

anyway i have to go peel potatoes for my mom cuz shabbat is startin like super soon and she's putting something together last minute! i hope you have a good weekend and shabbat. hope it all goes ok.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



mouse
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1931
Joined: Oct 2007

1/19/08 6:19 PM
User is offline View users profile

Killed, you sound so much like me in a way. The only difference is that after seminary, I too was very disillusioned and had many doubts religiously. I eventually was able to ask all my questions via email anonymously to my rabbi. (I must admit, it helped a lot that he was also a psychologist.) I'm not saying he had all the answers I wanted, but he had enough. I was not religious for a short period of time and then I went back on the derech. People didn't really know I went off the derech, as I kept all the mitzvos including kashrus, just I didn't believe any of it. I kept up the facade for convenience sake -- I knew that if I went back to being frum, I would have to buy new dishes and stuff. I"m glad I asked a Rabbi anonymously. You may want to get your Rabbi's email address or perhaps get an email address of a rabbi from another shul you respect. Often shuls have websites with Rabbi email addresses posted. (That was how I got a Rabbi email address the second time through -- I had halacha questions regarding self-injury.) I hope that helped a wee bit.


-------------------------

All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



fighter88
Supporter

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2007

1/19/08 7:26 PM
User is offline

kly u NEED to meet my rabbi, he's amazing.
i dunno if i can send links here but i'll try. he wrote some powerful stuff on frumteens.com(he started it)
here's somethign he wrote to me when i was like fourteen. he was/is AMAZING-

if Hashem really wants me 2 believe, why cant He just bring malachim down or s/t?>>

He did. Not the malachim, but the s/t. He created a world which simply could not have come without a creator any more than a malach can. If you were on the moon, and you found a CD player, what would you think? Obviously, that someone was here already.

Now what if someone told you that the CD player came by accident - billions of years of accidental natural upheavals caused the glasss to be formed out of sand, the wires out of copper, the body out of raw aluminum that melded with other metals, that it all accidently came together, including the logo and the letters on the front, the hinged cover, the playing mechanism, the machinery, the batteries, everything - that it came not through design but through accident --

-- what would you say?

You'd say he's out of his mind. The odds of a CD player coming by accident are psycho.

There are only two ways anything happens in this world: (a) accident or (b) intellgence. If the CD player could not have come by accident, that automatically means it was degined by intelligence. There isno third alternative.

If so, what should one say about finding not If that is what we would say, conclusively and without any room for doubt, about a camcorder, what, then, shall one say about the human eye, which demonstrates plan and purpose compared to which a CD player is no more primitive than a rock.

Light enters your eye, and these cone sensor tools fine tune the color contrast and detail of the image, based on the lighting conditions.

There are seven million of these color sensors in your eye. Seven. Million. All of them work together to give you a realistic color image.

Seven million.

If there's not enough light for them to create color, like in a shadowy place, the color tools give the job over to a different group of black & white image enhancers. There are about 127 million of them.

Meanwhile, at the same time, a computer in your optic nerve receives signals from those 127 million sensors, changes them into code and sends them, translated, through a few hundred thousand nerve fibers that lead to your brain.

How do these millions and millions of tools know how to do all this?

Accident or intelligence?

Why doesnt youe eye send the signals to your stomach or foot? How does it know which direction the brain is? How did the optic nerve in your brain know where to create a connection?

But we're not finished yet. While all this is happening inside your eye, the pupil, that black hole on the outside of your eye, is measuring the amount of light it needs to let inside the eye, and it opens and closes, like a lens, to acocmodate the exact right amount. A stereo fopcusing system is busy maintaining maximum image sharpness and a sophisticated image enhancer is clarifying tiny blurs in your vision caused by motion or darkness.

But thats nothing. The image then gets sent to your brain.

Your brain has about ten BILLION nerve cells. Each of these ten billion cells grows between 10,000 - 100,000 fibers in order to connect to other nerve cells in the brain. The total number of these connections, which totally work in tandem with each other, equals one quadrillion. That is: 1,000,000,000,000,000

If you want to know how much that is, here's an example:

Imagine a forest half the size of the entire United States - one million square miles. A thick forest, with 10,000 trees per square mile. If each of these trees had 100,000 leaves, the total amount of tress in the entire forest would equal one quadrillion - the amount of nerve fiber connections in your brain.

Ask an atheist what he would do if he was on a jury and they found the fingerprints of the accused on the victim's throat. The defendent claims that it wasnt him, and there must be someone else with the exact same fingerprints that he has. Plus the 20 witnesses who saw him strangle the victim lied.

You can't PROVE that this guy is guilty. It is possible that there exist in the world 2 like sets of fingerprints. There's nothign scientific that makes sure, when a baby is born, that his fingers make sure to not to duplicate everyone else's prints. the reason why we assume there are not 2 sets of prints the same is that there are so many possibile ways for fingerprints to look, the odds of 2 being the same are staggering.

If the atheist will not believe that two sets of fingerprints are possible to be the the same, that he would send someone to the electric chair and consider it proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was indeed the defendent and nto someone else who killed the victim (witnesses can lie, too, you know), ask him then, how he can believe that the human brain came by accident - if he believes that, he shoudl surely believe in the possibility of a whole slew of people with the same sets of prints.

This is just the beginning. We discussed elsewhere on the boards the proofs from history, from science, from archaeology, and more. There are no two ways about it. Rationally, G-d created the world beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I would suggest reading the books of Rabbi Miller - I made this suggestion many times on the boards - they are by far the best works on this topic. And many other topics as well. They are invaluable. But at least, let this serve as a small sample.

<<why r there so many ppl that have no idea why their Jewish, but when she goes off, their like, omg, nebach, shes wearing pants, oyyyyy.....they dont even themselves know why their Jewish all those frummies r bull! why do they believe? why should i blindly belive? why am i a goy cuz i say shut up? if being a goy means s/o who says stupid & shut up, & s/o who wears g-d forbid, a skirt thats by her ankles, then guess what???? e/o, im the newest goy!>>

I'm with you on this - those people are guilty of gross overkill. They should learn to chill a bit. Nobody's perfect, and if the worst aveirah anybody does is say "stupid" and "shut up", then they should consider their lives a great success. As far as those who call you a goy because of this, well, they are talking stupid, and they should shut up. Okay?

Such owrds, although not polite, do not constitute aveiros, merely impoliteness. Its not nice to be impolite where impoliteness is uncalled for but let's get things in perspective.

As fas as Judaism vs. other religions, thats even easier to prove than the existence fo G-d. Please see the Us, Evil, and Proofs to the Torah forum.

Hang in there, smile, and listen - I know the school you went to. This happens there more often than in other schools. I'm sorry youre a victim of this, but please, do NOT judge Judaism based on the actions of Jews. Especially since the particular Jews you are surrounded by include some which are notorious for doing these kind of stupid (I guess I'm a goy too) things.



This is just one little thinge he wrote out of the other posts....


-------------------------
"I breathe, therefore I Hope."
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



gad
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1458
Joined: Jan 2006

1/19/08 10:49 PM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: killedlastyear
i have plenty of questions but no one to ask and i'm too shy to ask for recommendations of someone who would be able to answer them.

anyway i have to go peel potatoes for my mom cuz shabbat is startin like super soon and she's putting something together last minute! i hope you have a good weekend and shabbat. hope it all goes ok.



You can feel free to post questions if you like.

It's nice to see how you run to help your mom. It's a nice Mitzva.

Have a good week.

 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

1/22/08 12:05 AM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: fighter88
hey hopefulmommy,
thanks for ur reply=)
um first of all i agree, i really do try and "listen" to myself and not judge any feelings i have.
i didnt talk w my rav so much about the anger toward Hashem i felt. i dont feel it right now. i dont know if its cuz im supressing it or bec talking helps.
my therapist was good about it. she told me that now she understands why its so hard for me to talk and why in the beginning we had like a million sessions where i was silent, why it takes almost nothing for me to close up....bec i tried for so many years to express my feelings but no one listened so i stopped trying.
i think that makes sense, no?


Makes a lot of sense. You rabbi sounds amazing too.

 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

1/22/08 12:16 AM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: killedlastyear
i guess my main issues are that i just don't care, i've had negative experiences with religious schools and people, nothing was every explained to me correctly. no one's ever showed me proof that god even exists and i could NEVER ask for such a thing in the school i attended elementary-high school. i went off to israel after high school to a school that just was NOT for me. i just stopped doing anything or caring about anything and ever since i've just been that way. i have plenty of questions but no one to ask and i'm too shy to ask for recommendations of someone who would be able to answer them.



Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that seem religious on the outside but don't really behave in a way that the Torah intended. It's very sad, because our tradition is so beautiful and all-encompassing, and so many people are turned off by those who misrepresent it, and are unable to access the wisdom and the joy that it contains.

Is it possible that you don't care simply because you're depressed? When people are depressed, they don't care about anything, no matter how wonderful it might be.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/22/08 6:17 PM
User is offline

wow everyone thanks for your replies.

fighter: i'm gonna have to go through that list of stuff you wrote. i'll let you know what i think when i'm finished.

hopefulmommy: i think i dont care more because i dont see the beauty in it and i dont really feel like i have much reason to care. because i do have questions. i'm just too shy to go about asking them. i guess what i'm tryin to say is that i'd be willing to care if i had reason to. if that makes any sense.

and as far as emailing my rabbi goes. i dont have one to email. and i dont know of one to email. so thats why i cant do that.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



HopefulMommy
Senior Supporter

Posts: 1612
Joined: Nov 2005

1/25/08 12:39 AM
User is offline

Quote

Originally posted by: killedlastyear
hopefulmommy: i think i dont care more because i dont see the beauty in it and i dont really feel like i have much reason to care. because i do have questions. i'm just too shy to go about asking them. i guess what i'm tryin to say is that i'd be willing to care if i had reason to. if that makes any sense.

and as far as emailing my rabbi goes. i dont have one to email. and i dont know of one to email. so thats why i cant do that.


Maybe if you ask some of your questions here, someone could recommend either a book to read or a rabbi to email.

 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/25/08 3:38 PM
User is offline

part one (computer wont let me post really long things):

this is in reply to hopefulmommy's reply to me.

i guess my most urgent questions are about death and being dead and am i really going to go to hell. thats kinda what freaks me out the most. at school they always made it seem like you go to hell for every little thing which after a while i was like oh screw it all it was making me so crazy like if i do this i go to hell, if i do that i go to hell. well if everything you do you go to hell then my afterlife is going to suck really bad, sorry for my language i didn't know how to put that any other way.
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     



killedlastyear
Senior Supporter

Posts: 628
Joined: Apr 2006

1/25/08 3:39 PM
User is offline

part two....

i really wanna know whats REALLY important, cuz like i said, at school they made it seem like EVERYTHING was really important and i know that can't be true. so like i cant do everything. im not perfect. so if i was gonna do some things what would be the important stuff and can you just do the important stuff at first? does god really care if you're trying a lil and you like keep shabbat but eat something not kosher? or is he still so mad at your for not keeping kosher that the keeping shabbat thing didnt really mean anything?
 
Reply
   
Quote
   
Top
   
Bottom
     

Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]
View thread in raw text format
FORUMS > Therapy < Refresh >

Navigation:

The information in this site is not intended to replace the advice of a doctor. FrumSupport disclaims any liability for the decisions you, the User, makes based on information on this site. By using this site, reading, viewing, posting or otherwise, you signify your assent to the Terms and Conditions of Use. If you do not agree to all these Terms and Conditions of Use, please do not use this site. FrumSupport may revise and update these Terms and Conditions of Use at anytime. Your continued usage of FrumSupport will mean you accept those changes.

If you think you or someone you know has a medical emergency, call your doctor, Hatzolah or 911 immediately. FrumSupport cannot and does not monitor forums and postings and cannot and will not pro-actively obtain help for users in need as FrumSupport does not have the funds or people power to accomplish such tasks and it will infringe on the anonymity of each user. Therefore, FrumSupport’s liability is limited by this paragraph and as further set forth in the Terms and Conditions of Use.