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TOPIC TITLE: therapist issuing ultimatum
Created On 9/7/08 1:45 AM
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Debbi
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9/7/08 1:45 AM
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i really need some advice,

My therapist of 8 years has told me that if i dont go into a DBT program (one where she has already scheduled an intake for me), she will no longer be able to work with me.

The DBT program is a 5 day a week hospital program in Manhattan, it is three hours a day, and will take me an hour of travelling time each way. And I need to commit for SIX months!!!

B"H i have a large family of young children, Yom Tov is drawing near, school has just begun, and I work part time.
I can't see how on earth i will cope, with being out of the house five hours daily, and then coming home exhausted,and preparing supper/homework, etc

I have already been in the partial hospital program, my therapist and Psychiatrist recommended i attend, (although I admit that i fought against it for 3 weeks) and my T told me that after the hospitalisation, she would continue working with me as we had before.

I completed the program, yet she still wont see me.
I called her a couple of times to schedule an appointment, not realising that she had made up her mind not to see me any longer, and she spoke to me on the phone, and then scheduled a face to face meeting.

The session was horrible.
She basically repeated the same thing about 10 times, about how I must do this next piece of work in a DBT program, and only after that does she think that i can continue treatment with her.

She then went on to tell me how, from the first 6mths of treatment with her, (over 8 years ago), I had made life difficult for her.

She proceeded to remind me of the times she recalls that i had a crisis, when it was inconvenient for her, and basically interfered with her personal life, such as when she was in Miami, lying by the pool, and she picked up a message from me saying that i was feeling suicidal. Or the time she was at a Sheva Brochos, and my hsband called her, b/c i had gone out driving, and it was 12 midnite, and he was frantic, b/c he didnt know where i was.

i told her that B"h i no longer act out in those ways, because of her consistant help. Although i do feel suicidal sometimes, i have never attempted it.
She replied that i have no right to make threats or imply things that scare her, and my P. doc. And I have the audacity to return to her after treatment- in this case the partial hospitalisation i was in during the summer- and tell her that i feel better, and just go on where we left off.
She said i behaved in a sadistic manner towards her and my husband for allowing them to see the cuts on my arms and legs, and then fighting them, about going into the hospital.

I understand where she is coming from.
She has spent years and years supporting me. Being there for me. Always going out of her way to show her caring of me. Always being available to answer my frantic phone calls. Giving me her cell phone # when on vacation, even when she went to israel. Talking to me on the phone, without charging me. Giving so much of herself, that now she no longer can.

I understand it.
Yet I feel a tremendous pain deep inside.

I miss her.
I miss her warmth and caring.
I miss her wise understanding of me, and her talent for reading between the lines.
I miss her patience.
And i miss sitting on her couch, in her sunny office, knowing that i am worthy of 45min of her full attention.

I'm so sad.
I feel abandoned.
I feel as though she is repeating what my mother did. ( who cut me out of her life, in a sudden gesture of anger}

And then I feel that i must deserve this treatment.
I am bad, and ungrateful, after all the years she has cared about me and my family.

I am trying to forget her.
And i'm not doing such a good job.
I call her office, just to hear her voice on her voice mail. I am so ashamed that i do that.

i dont know what to do.
Please help!
 
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su7kids
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9/7/08 1:58 AM
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I do think you should try the dbt.

I think this woman has enough confidence in you to realize you're at a point where you need to take the next step in helping yourself. If she honestly thought there was a danger, I don't know that she'd "let you go", but she has told you she would take you back if you do the DBT. I think you should try it. I think you should show a strong effort, missing only Yom Tov days, and make it happen.

I think she's NOT abandoning you, but making you take the next step in your recovery. I think this is her way of showing tough LOVE and I think you can step up to it and take the challenge.

Im sure your husband will be supportive with regard to the kids and maybe even helping a bit so that you can go to the program, after all its, in the interests of the whole family for you to make this step.

Go and try it. Psych yourself into being able to do it, and make it happen.

I believe your therapist believes in you!

and all those "reasons" you have that it won't work are just the Satan/Yetzer Hora getting in the way of doing the right thing.


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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mouse
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9/7/08 2:32 AM
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I understand you entirely as I have been in similar situations. However, I do think you should consider DBT as it is the "therapy of choice" for people with self-destructive behaviors according to my therapist who is an expert in the field (but doesn't do DBT.) If your therapist is not going to work with you until you join such a program and you miss her that much, why not try? Yeah, they want a commitment of six months, but what are they going to do if you don't stick it out? The worst that will happen is your therapist won't work with you anymore, which is already the case. Basically, you have a few choices.
1. No DBT and no therapist.
2. No DBT and get new therapist.
3. Try DBT and keep therapist.
4. Try DBT, ultimately abandon ship, and lose current therapist and get new one
Seems to me trying it out and seeing if you can handle the stress is not gonna do much more harm than already has been done. If you can't handle the stress, weigh the costs of finding a new therapist and perhaps even find alternatives to this program to present to your therapist. I could be very wrong; however, we often underestimate how much stress we can tolerate.


-------------------------

All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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Holding on
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9/7/08 12:45 PM
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Debbi,

A few quick thoughts:
* I hear your struggle, and can't imagine how hard it is.
I still miss my T and hate her at the same time.

*from a 'child's' point of view (20, but still at home) my mother is in constant physical pain bec of certain things and whenever I beg her to go see the doctor, she always says she doesn't have the time. I get upset at her for that bec. it kills me to see her suffer like that. I'd rather have peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for supper if that is needed in order for her to go to the doctor. Your pain is no different. Your kids need you! I know I don't have to tell you that, but I just needed to share that.

It seems like everyone is voting for the DBT. It'll be hard, but you need to do it for YOU.

Hatzlacha, and please let us know how things work out.

Stay strong,
"Holding on"



 
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Debbi
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9/7/08 2:52 PM
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I feel betrayed that you are all siding with my therapist....yet i know logically that you all make sense.


So many painfully mixed feelings.

I dont trust that she will see me after DBT.
She promised she would, after 4 Winds partial and then she went back on her word.

I am realising that she is only human, and she can't deal with ppl like me any longer.

It makes me feel unwanted and disgusting.

When things became too difficult for my mother, (i told her that i was molested), she cut off all contact.
One day we were talking to each other one to 3x weekly, (she lives overseas), and the next day, she just quit talking to me...cold turkey, with no explanation at all.
I felt that i had ceased to exist.
It has been three very long years, and she still refuses any contact.

I feel that way now.
My T, whom I was seeing 2x aweek, just like my mother, has quit.
I feel that I no longer exist.

I realise that is a problem.... i mean what does my existance have to do with my therapist???

I'm sure this subject would be wonderful therapy material.... but I refuse to talk about it to anyone, not even my husband.
No one gets it.
They say, (including my P. Doc).."Wow!, u r doing so well without your therapist, u see how u dont really need her etc etc...."
Little do they know the utter desperation i feel inside.
The loneliness.
Despair.
self loathing.
tears stuck, heavy behind my eyes..... i could go on and on, but whats the use?




 
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su7kids
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9/7/08 3:55 PM
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Debbi, my feeling is that your mother KNEW the abuse was going on, and hid it under her own carpet and totally did not appreciate you bringing it up, because it called her to admit what she didn't want to admit. If often happens that parents feel TERRIBLE to know that they really did allow this to happen and then even worse when they didn't do anything, so its not YOU she's rejecting, she's very angry with herself.

As for the therapist, I don't know about her, I don't nkow her, but just imagine... what if, after you've done the DBT you've OUTGROWN HER and you need someone else? Would that be ok?

I still believe she wants you to move forward, and see where it takes you and if she says she'll take you back when you've done the DBT, then trust her. Trust her that its the right thing for you.

And I'm sorry if you feel betrayed. I don't believe its a betrayal at all, I believe its a "tough love" kind of thing, where we, detached from you, see what it is you really need and are not willing to say "oh, ok, do what you want, because it makes you happy." Apparently that latter approach is not right for you.

So we, your cyber friends care about you and love you and want the best for you, even if its against your will.

Hugs to you!


-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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Holding on
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9/7/08 11:38 PM
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Debbi,

I'm sorry.
Sorry for everything. I had no right to say anything, but the part about you considering not going bec. of how hard it is w/ yom tov and all (which I totally get) triggered me and I felt that I had to say something.
I'm sorry again - i did not mean to judge you.
 
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Debbi
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9/7/08 11:39 PM
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Thank u for your support.
I "know" you are removed, and therefore probably the best advisors, yet unfortunately my feelings and my logical mind, no longer meet.

I respect your advice. And i realise that I need tough love. Yet I HATE it too.
I am slowly realising that DBT might be best 4 me right now.
it will be difficult. Such hard work trying to change my inner structure. All i wish for is Menuchas Hanefesh. To have peaceful thoughts during the day, and no nightmares at night.

I dont want to be in yet another hospital IOP, I HATE being a pathetic patient....

But if its my next step towards recovery, then i have no choice.

With regards to my mom. She says she never knew what was happening to me, and I believe her. I miss her so much. I guess I love her, even though she chose a child molester over her own daughter.

I wish i could have her back.
Feels so sad and painful to have a living mom, who rejects you.
i miss telling her about my kids, about how my daughter started Pre 1A, and how adorable she looked in her uniform, and how my son will be Bar Mitzvah in a few mths, and how excited he is.

My therapist used to be the one i talked to, and now she has gone too.


 
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Debbi
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9/7/08 11:46 PM
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holding,
u have nothing to apologise for!!
It really made an impression on me, that u would be glad to have less, as long as your mom is healthy.
please dont underestimate your support.
it is very valuable to me.

and I am sorry that i have been unable to offer any support to you and others here.

i used to have more energy, now i'm barely making it.

my thoughts r with you, in your own struggle.
 
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su7kids
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9/7/08 11:48 PM
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Debbi, can you find a mother substsitute? (and not your therapist?).

You realize your mother is NOT healthy in that she made that choice, right? You don't necessarily want HER back, but what "Mommy" represents.

I hear you have two chances at a great Mother/child relationship. Once when you're the daughter and once when you're the mother. Be the best mom to your child that you can be and it will fill some of that hole for you.

Here for you, if it helps!
{{{Debbie}}}}



-------------------------
Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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Debbi
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9/8/08 12:38 AM
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thanks for the hugs...
feels safe and good on the screen

i try hard to be a healthy and caring mother, and i have made tremendous strides in the "mom" area since i've been in therapy.
i need to find a substitute. but how?

i feel angry that Hashem creates us with the "need" for connection to our parents, and then He takes it away. To what purpose? I dont want to have such a strong need for a mother attachment.... but it is human nature, is it not?
 
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Aba
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9/8/08 4:11 PM
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Debbi,
Being stuck between rock and a hard place isn't easy, my impression is you seem to be dealing with it better then most.

I had a number of thoughts, some more pertinent then others, which if you are willing to bare with me, I would like to share.

>B"H i have a large family of young children
Bli Yin Harah and lots of nachas

>I work part time
This happened to us one year my wife just started a new job had either had to in or out patient her had to give it up. B"H her employer was understanding that she couldn't keep her commitment and I think we even gave used her as a reference for a subsequent job.

>coming home exhausted,and preparing supper
When my wife was just in-patient some of the meals were prepared by an org called Yad L'Yad (718-435-3002) they are all over.
>homework
uuuuuggggggggg.

>i miss telling her about my kids, about how my daughter started Pre 1A, and how adorable she >looked in her uniform, and how my son will be Bar Mitzvah in a few months, and how excited he is.
Your family dilemma reminds me of an artical I saw about Baly Teshuva http://www.beyondbt.com/?p=1058 it may pay to read.

I remember back in the days before I greased out there was a seen in the jazz singer that the father though he rejected his son, for in his case obvious reasons, when he was given a picture of his grand-son he was very tuched.
Yes I know it is just Hollywood but there maybe a picture now and then will help brake the wall between you and your mother.

good luck,
Aba of 4


-------------------------
"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden

Edited: 9/9/08 at 3:32 PM by Aba
 
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It's all good...
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9/8/08 5:17 PM
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I would love to say something that will help you feel better, lift your spirits.....
But I'm wordless. Thinkless. I'm sorry I can't offer anything.

Just wanted to tell you that I'm reading what you're writing and feeling for your pain and....I'm here, supporting, believing, rooting.

Dunno if that counts for anything...

If it does...I have more
Be well


-------------------------
Hodu laShem ki tov...
 
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Debbi
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9/9/08 9:13 AM
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Of course it counts IAG (too long to write whole name)
Thank you! Every word counts for me. Even though I live in a house full of children, I often feel so alone. I know that I should look at all the gifts in my life. I know that I have a wonderful husband who cares about me, and well adjusted beautiful children. Isn't that enough???

Why then do i keep on thinking about my mother?
I dont know, i really dont.

I walk around with a small black hole of emptiness embedded deep within. It hurts. The hole. I need to fill it with something, but I dont know how.

Abaof 4, thanks for all your advice.
Its good advice, and i will take seriously the one about sending pictures.
Although whenever I think of initiating contact, my anger gets in the way of actually doing anything.

thanks all for your tremendous words of support.


Edited: 9/9/08 at 9:16 AM by Debbi
 
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It's all good...
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9/9/08 2:32 PM
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You're welcome........wish I could do more......

I know how it feels to be surrounded by people who love you yet still feel so alone and isolated. You're not bad for feeling that. It's hard to focus on the good things in your life when you feel so bad, but that's the only thing that helped me really feel that whole feeling I needed to feel so badly. When I used to try to focus on the good, I'd kick myself for not just being happy with it--like what was my problem that I couldn't just be happy?! But it's ok to have trouble seeing it, and it's murderous to try to focus on the good when you're feeling so rotten inside and just want to curl up and nurse your hurt...
On the day that it hit me how *thankful* I had to be, and I really felt it....I dunno...some of the pain felt more okay suddenly...
I wish I could tell you something that will make you feel better right away, that will help you forget about that black hole... But I don't really know the right things to say (that's what I'm going to school to learn ) and all I can say is what I know to be Emes and what gave me some rays of light in my life.....

I really wish you all the best, Debbi. Hatzlacha raba with everything, and may you have clarity to see what G-d wants of you....

Feel good,
Itsy :-)


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Hodu laShem ki tov...
 
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Aba
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9/9/08 5:47 PM
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It's all good...,
>that's what I'm going to school to learn
Are you becoming a therapist or Dr.?
>Itsy
Please forgive my ignorance what does Itsy stand for?

Debbi,
Your welcome.

Bruch and Htzlacha
Aba of 4


-------------------------
"Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming." - Coach John Wooden
 
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It's all good...
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9/9/08 6:15 PM
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Aba--
No ignorance there. Itsy is just the nickname that was coined when someone commented that "It's all good..." was too long to type all the time :-P

I'm in school for counseling. Want to give back, yknow? I think I've learned a few skills in my experience, bH, and would love to help others the way some have helped me. I'd like to be His shaliach...


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Hodu laShem ki tov...
 
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Debbi
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9/9/08 6:39 PM
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hi itsy,
i jst wrote a whole long post to you on the other thread, and then it got lost! So frustrating, bli neder i will find time to re=write.

How much longer do u have to finish school? You will make a great therapist.

good luck!

 
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frumsw
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9/9/08 11:27 PM
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I can totally relate to the feeling of missing your mother. When a mother dies, the daughter comes home from the funeral and says to herself, now let me call my mother and tell her who was at the funeral. Then she remembers who was actually being buried. It's even more painful when the mother is alive yet cuts off contact. Sometimes, there are elderly lonely women who would love to feel part of a family and have people involve them in their lives. Maybe there is someone like that in your area who can act as a substitute mother/grandmother. The issue of yomtov and children is an issue that anybody with a disruption to their daily lives -sickness or even simchos, have to deal with. You have to realize it's only temporary and get help and/or cut corners. I look back at all the evenings I left my children with a babysitter or alone when they got older and came back to homework not done, kids fighting, going to sleep late, baby crying etc and I feel guilty. But I remember it was because I was travelling far to a marital therapist.Believe me, a divorce would have disrupted them much worse! In short, it's worth it in the long run. Hatzlacha and a Kesiva V'Chasima Tova.


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frumsw
 
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It's all good...
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9/10/08 10:09 PM
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Debbi--
A little under two years left. Thank you for your compliment. I really hope I can do it...

Looking forward to reading that post you're talking about :-)

Be well,
Itsy




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Hodu laShem ki tov...
 
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Debbi
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9/11/08 9:58 AM
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Itsy,
Wow! u r close to the end.... thats great!
Are u going for the MHC degree?
I've heard that its good.

 
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It's all good...
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9/11/08 2:10 PM
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Yup. Know anything about it?


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Hodu laShem ki tov...
 
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unhelpable.
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9/14/08 2:13 PM
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debbi-
i'm sorry you're going through all this.
i know what its like to be hospitalised. i hated it so bad.
i've really got nothing to say except that i'm thinking of you and hopng that everything works out real soon.
my mother walked out of my life over six years ago, and not a day goes by that i don't wish she'd call me and tell me that she loves me and wants me back.
mothers are mothers and i guess however dysfuntional they are, we still want them to love and accept us...
sending you a huge hug,
un.


-------------------------
"everyone crys every now and then, my tears just happen to be red."
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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11/16/08 11:07 PM
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So, Debbi, what happened with the DBT program?
a lynn
 
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