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TOPIC TITLE: Is it all my choice?
Created On 12/20/06 9:32 AM
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Debbi
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12/20/06 9:32 AM
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Yesterday my therapist told me that I have a choice.

I can tell myself that because my mother has decided that I no longer exist for her, that my life is not worth living.
OR I can tell myself that I have a wonderful and caring husband, beautiful talented children, loyal friends and a trustworthy therapist. Added to the fact that I am no longer a child, and I do not "need" mom the way I did as a young child.

Okay: This all sounds wonderfully logical and simple.
1+1=2
Adult does not "need" mother figure.
Adult may "want" mother, but does not "need".

Well then, if all this is true, I should be living happily ever after.

Why then am I overwhelmed with feelings?
Why am I not managing my life?
Why am I waking up with nightmares? Flashbacks? Body memories?
Why am I petrified that my therapist is on the verge of getting rid of me?
Why am I self injuring again?
Why am I feeling lost, alone, abandoned....?

If I don't "need" my mother, why am I feeling such profound pain?
I wake up in the morning, and the first thing that comes to mind is, "mom". Where is she? Why is she not here to help me through all of this suffering?
The pain just sits inside me, and hurts and hurts.
Why can't she pick up the phone just so that I can hear her voice? I really miss my mother. I can't help it. I suppose I love her? But she can't love me back.
So I feel empty inside. Something is lost. Gone forever.

I am torn between feeling that perhaps my father is better than my mother. At least he acknowledged my existance. He used my body, and it makes me feel sick, but at least I was a "person" , at least I existed.
My mother has proclaimed in her own way, that I am unworthy of existing.
I am nothing.
Unworthy of life.

Is this all my choice?
Is my therapist right?
Is all of this pain just a plain and simple "choice"??

debbi
 
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Debbi
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12/21/06 11:43 AM
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She can't save me.
She never could, and she never will.

These past few weeks I have been living in the past.
I am feeling the same pain I must have felt as a child.

This morning, after I sent everyone off to school, and the house was empty, I began to feel a sense of panic rise within me. The more I tried to quell the feeling, the worse it got.

I feel as though it is all happening now. My mother is giving birth, and so my father comes into my bedroom. I am scared to walk out of my bedroom in the morning. I am so afraid.
Afraid to be.
Afraid of myself and my feelings.
This morning I am afraid to go to school, my mother is in bed with her new baby, who will save me from the monsters which will devour me when I walk to school? I am so so scared.
But who can I tell?
Who will save me?
Who?
I am 6 years old, and I don't know how to save myself.
And now mom can't save me either. She has to take care of the new baby.
Now daddy can do whatever he wants.
Oh, oh
Help!
Someone.
Anyone.
Please save me.

I need a saviour.
All these years later, and I still want the comfort of my mother.
I still yearn for her to wrap her arms around me, and tell me that everything will be alright, and that she will take care of the monster who did this bad thing to me.

But she won't.
She can't.
And she never will.

I had better start believing the truth, before it kills me.

debbi
 
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kivunulo
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12/21/06 10:35 PM
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oh you are so heilig, enduring all this pain and still managing everything else you'r AMAZING.
how do you do it?
when i was going through pain i just slept and slept never wanting to wake up.
please give me a bracha.

one thing , you still have a father in heaven, don't forget about him.


Edited: 3/9/07 at 3:06 PM by kivunulo
 
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Belly
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12/22/06 2:42 AM
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Hi Debbi
I'm sorry you are going through a tough time and I hope my words will help you (I sure hope that they won't upset you)
a few things came to mind when I read your posts.
First of all you mother does aknowlege your existens. If you would be nothing she wouldn't make such and affort of ignoring you. It's like giving you "negative attention". Think about how much affort people put into avoiding someone.

The other thing I was thinking about was that Yes it is our choiche, but sometimes we believe that we are too weak to make this choiche. This is so much easier said than done! Maybe it will help you if you think of what you would have done as a mother. Maybe you can pretend that you are the mother when all this happens and save yourself. I'm sure that you are a much stronger person than your mother and that you are able to help yourself and no matter how weak, depressed you might feel, I'm 100% sure that if you would know of someone abusing his child, you would do everything to stop it.

Keep strong! You are an amazing person and I'm sure this hard time will pass soon

Good Shabes
Belly

 
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RoNbOnBoO13
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12/22/06 12:01 PM
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why is it that people always say that, that if they were abused, or if like they saw their husband abusing their kid they would be able to stop him. its not true. actualy the percentage is sooo high, i dont have it in front of my but i think its like 3/4 people abuse end up being abusive! thats gonna be me, i already know it. last year when i was in sem we had a guest speaker from shalom taskforce and she was like mentioning all the signs of an abuser for when we all start dating and she described me. and i dont even to be like that, i dont realize it. and gettinghelp isnt as simple as it sounds. in the non jewish world abuse is kind of diffrent. i mean i know its the same but when u say like my fathre abuses me they take u out of ur home and put u in foster care.... in the jewish world they try to help the whole family thru it. my father abused my mother, and when she left him bc of it he blamed me and started abusing me. and now even tho i am 20 and dont live at home he still verbaly abuses me. he tells me i am his stupidest child.... but u know what i know its not true, cuz as far as education goes i was the 1st kid in my family to graduate highschool. i was the 1st 1 to go to sem and last the whole year. and i have a degree. i went thru enough college to get that and neither of my parents ever went to college. so i just kinda ignore it. although it really gets to me when i go visit him bc after all he is my father and he tells me 1 thing and then goes and talks to my brother and tells him something else cuz then me and my brother fight about it. but honestly debbie, ur mother loves u. my mom is kinda trying to get back at me cuz i moved out of her house. i know she is upset and just cant handle talking to me, but i know in the long run she loves me, i mean she is my mother after all!!! but u just have to move past the part about ur mother ignoring u and go on to the next part of life. its not worth settling on....... hope this help, have a great shabbat and new month


-------------------------
JAMIE UR AWSOME! TIFFANY U R 1 BRAVE FREAK! GET BACK HER MY BABY MISSES HIS MOMMY! I LOVE U BOTH!!!
 
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Debbi
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12/24/06 1:04 AM
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Look, I know that my father was molested as a child.
He told me so.

But Ron, does that mean he had license to then molest me, b/c it happened to him?
What are u saying?
Because Hitler killed millions of people, now the survivors can murder a few more?
Makes no sense.
Every person is responsible for his or her actions. Circumstances have no relevence here.
I am using all my emotional and physical strength to get beyond the wrong that was done to me, as a helpless child.
My father should have had the same help, and then he wouldnt have done what he did.
You do not have to go on to be an abuser.
You sound as though you are suffering terribly.
there is help. And there is no shame in seeking it, and accepting it. But that is only if u really WANT it, which to me, sounds as though u r not really ready to accept help and change the pattern of your life.

please don't assume, and then accept the fact that u will become a child abuser just b/c of statistics, and also b/c it feels so hard to get the help u so obviously seek.

I see your courage, as well as the "tough" face u show to the world.
You sound as tho u have suffered enough, and perhaps now is the time to allow yourself to be in a place where u r not in survival mode 24/7.

all the best
debbi
 
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Debbi
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12/24/06 4:25 PM
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Hi Belly,
thanks for replying. I know I can always count on you for support.

i think that my mother really is unaware of the impact she is having on me. Also I think that her "abandonement" of me in the present has triggered her emotional distance of me in the past.

I am stuck in a time capsule, and I am finding it really difficult to step out of it, and emerge into the next step of my healing.
I tend to "recall" past events in picture form, so that presently I am reacting to the image in my head of myself as a 6 year old, standing in the doorway of my bedroom, and feeling paralyzed.
Feeling that I can move neither forwards nor backwards.
Feeling that my words have dissapeared, and that I no longer have the ability to be verbal. It is frightening, but more so I feel that my brain is exploding. That I need to scream and shout, and alert the whole world that something is happening to me, and my mother cannot save me, because she just gave birth to my baby sister.

I am stuck with that image, and I have no clue how to shift it.

I have also worked out the connection between my own self injury, and where it first began.
After that day, when I stood at my bedroom door, I must have realised on a very basic level that mom would never get me away from my father. And because the pain was too intense to keep it all buried inside, there had to be a way to express it.
That is when I began to draw blood.
I was 6 years old, and I worked out a way in which I could survive emotionally, without going "crazy".
I cut my arms.
Each time, I felt "stuck". Each time the pain became too great, and mom was unavailable, I cut my skin, which served as a physical sign that "something big" was going on in my life. It was a marker of sorts.
Cut.
Cut.
Cut.
A scar for each time my pain became too much to store in my head.

It feels fascinating to me, to unravel and put together all the circumstances of my childhood.
It is sad, yet I appreciate the wonder of the mind, and how intricately woven together are our thoughts, feelings, actions and circumstances.

I continue the pattern today.
For every segment of rage I experience, but cannot express, I add another scar to mark the pain.
I am becoming slowly aware that it is no longer necessary to use this self destructive behaviour. Not only is it wrong, but it is also unhelpful. Yet it is very addictive, and often I feel I "need" the release it offers me.

So much to work on.
I am feeling rather logical today, and far less emotional, which is easier to deal with.

Thanks again for all your support.
Would love to hear comments on anyone elses process of healing, or growth.

take good care
debbi.

 
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ernie55B
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12/25/06 9:24 AM
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Hi Debbie,

I am afraid your therapist is right (and you use the words yourself). There is a difference between need and want. Your need for your mothers acceptance
is almost like an addiction. Of course, every human being wants the love and approval of their parents. And there is nothing wrong with wanting it.
But I think the only way you will be able to move on, is to recogize the fact that this need (addiction) may never be met and figure out how to make your life more meaningful.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I think by giving more of yourself to others (a chesed project) you will be able to fill that void in your life .Although I'm sure you are a wonderful mother, by getting involved in other people's misfortunes and helping them, you will be able to find that meaning in life that you don't feel.

I hope you take this in the spirit it is meant to be. Caring, concern, sympathy, and the ever present wish in my heart that your pain will diminish.

Please feel well,
Ernie

 
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ernie55B
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12/26/06 12:05 PM
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Hi Debbie,

Here is something else to think about that I was researching the other day.
The question of why good people, such as yourself, are made to suffer.

This question is first dealt with by R' Sadia Gaon, who writes that HKB"H makes righteous people suffer as a test
so that they may ultimately be rewarded for it. In His infinite mercy, He does not test anyone with something
He knows they will not be able to endure. (This is where people get the idea from that Hashem only gives you what
He knows you can handle).

But why make the good person suffer? Just give them the reward!
The answer is, so that others will see and know that this person is truly a tzaddik.
And a reward received because of suffering is prized much more than a reward that is just simply given.

The Rambam adds that when a tzaddik suffers, other people see that and learn from it and are inspired by it.

Maybe you need to think of your suffering in terms of a test from HKB"H.
I have no doubt that your emunah is strong and I know you are raising your children B'derech Hatorah.

Imagine the reward you will receive for living your life as a frum person in spite of all your pain and suffering!
Have you abandoned HKB"H because of it? Not once have I read anything that suggests that you have.

Every mitzvah you do is a kiddush Hashem and an inspiration to me as I'm sure it is to all those that know you.

Ernie

 
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kivunulo
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12/27/06 9:12 PM
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four words "you are great ernie".
thank you for explaining


Edited: 3/9/07 at 3:06 PM by kivunulo
 
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Panda613
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12/28/06 2:19 PM
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Beautifully put Ernie,
It gives chizuk to all those that are needlessly suffering................emotional pain, as I myself also suffer.

Debbie,
Like Belly and Ernie stated,
You are a strong person, and I know how difficult it is to experience emotional pain. I had wonderful parents, but a horrible empty abusive marriage. With only a civil divorce. I am still tied and bound by not having a Get.
The pain is sometimes completely unbearable. Yet we must go on for our children, and those that do love and care about us.
Your mother sounds as if she is in complete denial about the horrors that happened to you, and I beleive that the only was that she can rationalize it for herself is by saying that you don't exist. She was silent..........it is her guilt...............and should not be your guilt.
YOU DO EXIST!!! HASHEM LOVES YOU!!!! YOUR FAMILY LOVES YOU!! and all of us that feel like non entities during the down times in our lives LOVE YOU!!!
Stay STRONG!!! I know how difficult it is when the emptiness and pain just envelop every breathe you take.............but eventually it passes, and the SUN MUST SHINE.............Hashem must shine!!
Hoping that your pain will turn into strength and inspiration!!
P613
P.S. if anyone lives in Monsey , a DBT group is starting for the first time ever for frum women. For information call the Bikur Cholim of Rockland County- (845) 425-7878 , Dept. of Clinical Services
you must be referred by your private therapist though.
Hatzlacha and strength


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Panda613
 
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ernie55B
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12/28/06 3:01 PM
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Thank you Menachem and Panda! I just hope it offers some relief for Debbie.

Ernie

 
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kivunulo
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12/28/06 11:18 PM
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? just want to add one thing ernie, that the zohar writes.
an intresting question; the definition of day - the time that there is light, and the definition of night - "the time that it is dark", right?
so why do you call the night and day together a day?
the torah also calls it like that, "veyhi erev veyhi boker yom echad" - it was night it was day, one day.

the answer is that the only way to know the greatness of the day is by seeing the dark then you know how good the day is for if it would only be day nobody would understand its greatness, actually the more darkness you see the better you understand the greatness of the day and that is why the night and day together are called day, because if not for the night you would not know that day is day - the greatness.
the same thing is with a painful situation hashem wants us to understand his kindness to us, we can't understand it fully only by experiencing night - pain, the more pain you experience the more you shall understand his kindness and greatness for all good things, and understand how good it truly is.
sometimes this is the reason for a person's pain,
every person feels in debt to somebody who did him a favor and wants to repay him right? when someone saves your life we just want to do anything for him right?
hashem wants from us in return for his kindness that we should thank him, and the more meaning you have in your thankfulness the better.
so we want very much to thank hashem.
threrefore it is a favor for us to have pain because through it we see the light much better and that is how we are able to appreciate it more, and thank hashem for it more and more.

whew! im just looking at my post i didn't intend it to be so long, i guess i got lost in this explanation so i'll stop here, i hope i got the message across, i know i've got kind of a problem explaining things- communicating - getting other people to understand what im saying, (oop's got carried away again ) and in my frustration i repeat some things to many times.

... i'll try to cut it short here
the point is everything is for your good so HANG ON TIGHT. (it's hard but.. just don't let go)

good luck you all


Edited: 3/9/07 at 3:07 PM by kivunulo
 
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frumsw
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1/27/07 11:12 PM
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Maybe it would be helpful to get in touch with the healthy part of YOU that can protect you and nurture you now that you are an adult and not a child anymore. Just the fact that you are still around and seeking help proves that the healthy part is alive and well. That healthy part validates your feelings, protect you from future harm and think of ways to make you happy. Take care.


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frumsw
 
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kivunulo
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2/14/07 10:57 PM
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another something i picked up somewhere
Many people ask: What have I done to deserve this? We may not have done anything. It's not a punishment. It is a means to an end. The end being, what we learn and who we become during the process; what we learn and who we become having gone through it.

keep smiling


Edited: 3/9/07 at 3:07 PM by kivunulo
 
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