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TOPIC TITLE: when does it happen?
Created On 11/20/06 10:54 AM
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Debbi
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11/20/06 10:54 AM
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I'm trying to work out for myself when I feel the need to cut, or feel pain.

I don't cut often, I mean in the real sense of the word, such as using a razor, to cut my skin, I do however cause myself to bleed on a regular basis, almost every day in fact.
I don't know what that is considered, if it's SI or not. I suppose it doesn't really matter what the official term is. Although I try in my own mind, to minimise it, and tell myself that if I am not actually using a tool to make the cut, and instead I am just making old wounds bleed, then its not so bad.

This morning I am feeling extremely detached.
I feel as though everything is far away.
I am scared to feel the painful feelings which are coming up in therapy right now, so instead I block out all feelings.

Its a defense mechanism, and it has worked wonders in the past.
The only draw back, which I am becoming more and more aware of, is that having no feelings, is very uncomfortable.
I am begining to realise that as soon as I begin to feel this detached floating feeling, thoughts of cutting enter my mind.

I have discovered that if I actually take a razor in my hand and cut, I feel a sense of relief, almost as though a bubble has burst, and all the air flows gently out.

Its crazy.
I know its wrong, and wicked and everything else, but for me, feeling isolated between myself and myself is alot worse.
Feeling the sting of my arm, and seeing the redness of my blood, allows me to know that I am alive, I am real, and that I have feelings.

The other times I cut, are when I feel anger.
I don't know how to express anger.
I am frightened of it. Afraid it will kill me or someone else.
So I allow it to sink deep inside my soul, until it forms into an uncomfortable rock.
Sometimes that rock gets too heavy, and it needs an outlet.
I believe that when it gets too much for me to carry, the only way I know how to get some relief is by cutting, which again releases the agony, of an imminent explosion.

Wonder if anyone identifies with all of this.



 
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ernie55B
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11/20/06 5:23 PM
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Debbi,

When I told my pdoc. that I was feeling some of the feelings you are describing, he said that if I cut myself one more time, he would hospitalize me.
That was enough to make me stop.
Being that you realize yourself that this may kill you eventually, and the fact that you are feeling so awful lately, maybe you should consider hospitalization.
At least discuss it with your pdoc. or therapist.

I hope this suggestion doesn't upset you; I just want to see you not suffering so much.

Please feel well!!!
Ernie
 
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Debbi
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11/21/06 8:59 AM
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Hi Ernie,

hope u r feeling a bit better?

No, hospital is not the answer for me.
It is the underlying issues which need to be adressed. And that needs to be done in my therapists office.
Unfortunately the work is often painful, and very time consuming. I guess thats why I find myself stuck at the moment.

My doctor knows about my SI, and I suppose theres nothing that can really be done, unless I am willing.

anyway, good to hear from u, missing your posts around here.

debbi
 
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killedlastyear
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11/22/06 11:06 PM
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i cut when i'm angry. when someone has said something mean to me. when i've done something wrong. when i'm scared of the consequences of my stupidness. i cut mostly because i hate myself. i screw up alot. i can't fix what i've done wrong or i'm too shy to. so since i have nothing to do to make it better i cut. i mostly only cut in the night time and at school in the bathroom stalls though.
but the whole bubble of relief thing that totaly describes it. usualy. except for those few times where i keep slashing away and i never get that relief feeling. thats the worst.
 
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Debbi
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11/23/06 10:33 AM
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Hi KLY,
that sounds frightening, to keep on slashing, hoping for relief.
I haven't experienced it that way. I am usually totally detached, yet intent on the matter at hand, almost as though i am performing a surgery... bizarre.

Last night I did it again.
I was feeling a deep sense of despair. I called the one friend who usually understands, but she was busy with her baby.
I thought about calling my therapist, but didn't want to disturb her at 10:00 at night.
My husband had gone to bed early, my kids were all sleeping, the house was quiet, and I sat in my recliner feeling desperately sad and alone.
I felt that if only I could cut my wrists, or swallow all the pills I own, I would feel better.
I sat there in my kitchen, surrounded by silence and a deep sense of sorrow.

I knew I had to talk to someone, so I called the yitti leibel hot line. (I've never done that before) It took me about 5 tries to actually get someone, (I guess its not a crisis line). Every time I got their machine I convinced myself that I was feeling better, and that I didn't need any help.
I perservered though, and in the end spoke to someone, who very generously listened to me.
It helped, it down - graded the intensity of the loneliness.
I felt there was someone out there, who was willing to listen to my pain. I felt less alone.

Afterwards, I took my razor, I've been thinking about it all week, but didn't give in, until last night.
The sense of relief was so powerful, and I was able to go to sleep.

I'm sad that I need to do this to myself.
Its hard to feel so alone and so full of pain.
I wonder if it will ever end.

debbi
 
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killedlastyear
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11/23/06 11:13 AM
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awwww i'm so sorry, i wish i knew you in the "real world" so that you would have been able to call me!
i've never heard of that hot line before. what is it?
i'm so so sorry that you were feeling that lonely and stuff. *internet hug*.
i hope you got a good sleep! maybe today will be better.
 
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Holding on
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11/23/06 11:26 PM
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Hey Bubbles,

I'm so sorry that you felt that desperation, that urgent need to cut yourself. I feel your pain and cry for you.

I know the feeling of being alone w/ all the pain though. Right now, I finally convinced myself that meds aren't soo bad and that I should give a pdoc (myself really) a chance to see what meds can do for me. I thought that was the biggest obstacle. Boy, was I wrong. My parents (as I've said b4) don't want me on drugs, and when I mentioned that I was going to call the pdoc, my father was like, you don't need drugs... and you don't even need to be seeing a T for that matter... all you have to do is change your attitude...
I was sooo hurt.
I guess all these times that I've hurt myself, they must have thought I was just doing it to make them feel guilty or something. I really don't know. I did it out of desperation, bec. of the pain I was feeling so alone w/ . And now I see, apparently nobody took what I was saying so clearly, nobody took it seriously. All this time that i kept hoping they would 'get' me, that someone would understand me.
To know that the two ppl. who mean the most to me, aren't capable of understanding what I am going thru, that is almost too much to bear. How alone that makes me feel.
I was the one who had to beg for my parents to get me a T, and now I am fighting to be able to see a pdoc. Does no one understand me? Am I not speaking clearly enough?
Sometimes I wonder what I would have to do open up their eyes? If I'm rushed to the hospital bec. I swollowed everything in the medicine cabinet, would that help them understand me? Is that what I have to do?? or would they not even notice me until it was too late?

I hope things improve for you really soon.
H.O.

ps. you can also call the chazak hotline.
 
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RoNbOnBoO13
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12/17/06 11:46 AM
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im really confused about the whole self injuring urself. i used to, believe me i have tons of scars, but then i turned 18 about 2 years ago and discovored tatoos. depending on were u get them they bleed like really bad, and also they hurt. i have 3 now and dont get me wrong they are all really pretty, but i dont get them bc of that, i realized if im gonna cut myself ill have an ugly scar and this way i wont, also this way i cant chicken out, once they start they cant stop,and the pain feels so good. i feel so relieved afterwards i can go months with out it. but then when the stress really builds up i have to go back. i know there is something wrong with me, but i am 20 and living on my own and i cant afford a therapist or psychiatrist, although i really need to go. i am also an alcoholic. i dont like to say that but i am i wake up everyday at 9am and start my day off with a screwdriver!!! im so screwed up, and the worst part is that i am of marriageable age and its so hard to see my friends get married and think i never will cuz who wants to marry a freak like me!!!!!!!


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JAMIE UR AWSOME! TIFFANY U R 1 BRAVE FREAK! GET BACK HER MY BABY MISSES HIS MOMMY! I LOVE U BOTH!!!
 
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killedlastyear
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12/18/06 2:35 PM
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um thats interesting. im sick right now and can't think so straight so sorry if this doesnt make much sense but i've never really thought of getting a tattoo or piercing as a way of SI. ok i really cant think right now my brain is pounding i'm gonna have to reply to this later.
 
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avious101
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2/24/07 8:18 PM
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Debbi
is great that you dont cut often but your therapists job is to keep you safe and they cant do that if you dont call them when you need help and they would get a diferent job if they didnt want to be called at night and im sure your husband wouldnt have mindedif you woke him up for somthing as important as that but its great that you called a hotlie
 
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trachtgutvzeingut
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3/1/07 7:33 PM
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Everyone must read Self-Injury: Psychotherapy with People Who Engage in Self-Inflicted Violence by Robin E. Connors http://www.amazon.com/Self-Injury-Psychotherapy-People-Self-Inflicted-Violence/dp/0765702649/sr=8-1/qid=1172794288/ref=sr_1_1/102-8727756-7859340?ie=UTF8&s=books


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tracht gut
 
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trachtgutvzeingut
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3/1/07 7:37 PM
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debbi, just wanted to tell u that I think this book can be especially helpful for you, as it works on explaining the connection of trauma and SI. U must read it!!!!!!!!!!


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tracht gut
 
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Debbi
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10/22/07 5:02 AM
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I just saw this book u r reccomending. i know its a about a year too late!
i've been back here lately reading old stuff. It looks interesting, has anyone read it?

I've been thinking about cutting all shabbos. No more mosquito bites to scratch, and i'm getting desperate.
i dont want to do it, but the more i try not to, the more powerful the urges become.

Wishing desperately for a solution.
 
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Holding on
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10/22/07 12:18 PM
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Debbi, I sooo hear you.
I've been going crazy the last two weeks not to do it. Then on Tue. after T, I didn't think I had it in me to continue not SI-ing.
I didn't do it Tue. bec. my T wouldn't let me leave till I promised her I wouldn't do it, so I gave her my word.
Wed. was all about staying distracted.
Thur. I just totally 'dissociated' to keep from doing it. (I hate that feeling)
Fri. was B"H too busy for me to think much.
Yesterday was too close for comfort. I didn't do it only bec. I was honest w/ myself and knew that if I start I would have no control over how deep I went. Not that I care about how deep I go, but I really can't get myself hospitalized, so... yeah - pretty pathetic way to exhist/cope

I'm really stuck now about how much of this I should tell my T tomorrow, bec. she is already concerned about me. (and that's w/o me telling her that how deep I was thinking about going).
I want to tell her, but I'm not sure she would wait around for me to get an appointment by the pdoc, get the meds, and wait for them to kick in.
I'm not sure I can wait either.
she is worried about me, and I'm afraid of what she will suggest.
But I'm of shidduch age and cannot afford to be hospitalised.
help!
 
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gad
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10/22/07 2:32 PM
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People get hospitalized and get married. Not to worry.

The main thing is to realize when you need help, and to get it.

I hope you are able to hold on, or perhaps to get the out patient help with medication which you describe. But if the experts recommend hospitalization, then it's better to get well first, so that you'll be able to heal and do a good shidduch and do lots of good things.

Hope to hear good news.
 
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mouse
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10/23/07 6:31 PM
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I was hospitalized and told by a prominent rabbi that so long as it wasn't a current issue, shidduch need not know. You may want to ask your rabbi (if he has email that way it remains anonymous). Hubby still does not know 7 yrsl later. Now in day hospital for 2 suicide/SI attempts and thoughts out of whack. Not telling has caused some probs., but in the grand scheme of things doesn't really matter. (For example, i was in hospital cuz of childhood trauma. Didn't tell hubby and he accidentally retraumatized me recently.)
Hospital big stigma that shidduch doesn't need know unless currernt issue. If current issue, you need ask yourself if you should be dating and trying to start a family at such a tormentign time. i quit dating for five yrs cuz of that. and you know what? who cares? so i got married at 28? the few extra yrs helped me get a temporary grip on my SI so i could form a functional family. Now unfortunately, back in day hospital cuz unstable again, but not as bad. That's my expereince and thought. any ideas out there? am i totally off base?


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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Debbi
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10/23/07 11:38 PM
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Not many viable options are there?
Either u dont tell, and get married, have children, and wade your way thru your life of children, car pools, babies waking up at night etc etc together with dealing with such things as self injury.

OR u wait until u gain some amount of stabilty, enough to marry and raise a family without the threat of hospitalisations hanging over your head, and in the interim u walk around feeling like everyone is pointing at u, and wondering why u r not married at 18!
Hell of a choice.
I really cant say which one is better or worse.
My own experience was that I married young, but had no ptsd symptoms at that time. The crash came after being married for 6 years and a bunch of babies later.
So my hsband and I are forced to deal with these issues of hospitals, therapy, doctors etc, together with raising a family.

Its the way it worked out for me, but if I had had a choice? Who knows? Sometimes I feel a tremendous amount of guilt for putting my innocent husband and children thru this hell I am going thru.

sorry my advice is probably no help. I wish I had better answers.

Holding on, i'm glad u didnt act on your urge, and I hope u still havent.

 
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Holding on
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10/24/07 10:01 AM
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*frown* - none of the options sound too appealing, but I want to work this through first, bec. I don't want to start off a marriage while still going through all this. I can only see it get worse for me - w/ the stress of dating, a wedding...
It is extremely tempting though - just to get away from all the negativety.
aaarrrrggg! You can go crazy

Debbi - just knowing you understand and knowing I'm not alone is a big comfort for me, so
THANK YOU ALL for your SUPPORT!

I still haven't done anything to hurt myself, although I am as tempted as ever. Even though I saw my T yesterday, my father came with me, so I didn't really get long to talk w/ her privately and I didn't tell her just how close I was. (i just told her it was a hard week...)
Now I somehow have to find a way to get through this week until I see her again on Tuesday.
I promised her I would call the pdoc bec. she said there is not much she can do if I'm not on meds - Talk about choices !
I hate taking meds, so I wonder if I'll manage not to cut until the meds 'kick in' . Honestly, I'm not so sure how much longer I can hold out. It feels like I've been 'holding on' forever.

 
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su7kids
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10/24/07 11:05 AM
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Holding on is good!! Keep doing it!


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Proud Mom of 7, MIL to 3, Grandmom of 4!
 
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mouse
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10/24/07 7:39 PM
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if ppl are so judgemental about not being married at a certain age, do you really want to hang with that crowd? i wouldn't and don't hang out with that crowd anymore. I'm with people who are nicer than that. If not married and 40 it's a totally different story but that is less likely i think.

On the other hand, if you are not married and single at 27 or so no big harm in the sense of "it happens." However, if you go out and tell the guy of your SI behaviors there is always a possibility he will dump you and tell his buddies. You then get blacklisted in effect and your SI is "outed." If you are stupid enough to get engaged and still engage in SI behaviors and you haven't told your zivug and he finds that is a definite deal breaker and you will be investigated possibly in future shidduchim and it may come out. If your zivug knows about your SI behavior and wants to get married anyway, he is either brave, caring, careless, wreckless, loving, very very patient, or all of the above. (Of course he may have other differences that he is either hiding or working on too). (In my case, I didn't say about SI, however, i was aware he had undiagnosed ADHD and chose to overlook it as no one is "perfect.")

Considering the stress of shana rishona, SI may very well get worse before it gets better. If hubby finds out about SI behavior before marriage and you work on discontinuing behavior while married, fine. If, however, he finds out after marriage about SI behavior and didn't know about it before, taht is a "deal breaker" and possible reason for divorce. If divorce occurs taht is even worse than breaking an engagement or not getting married at 18. Furthermore, it would make you ineligible to marrry a cohen, thus limiting your few choice even more.

If you wait until your condition stabalizes on the other hand and get married a little later (like I did), you may be able to get through shana rishona without SI or without obvious signs of SI. I did it without needing SI with help of a therapist. I also had many stressors in my marriage as I found out a few days before marriage that I had a fertility problem that would need addressing once married for about six months to a year (I was told not to say anything cuz it would only freak out the guy and be unproductive -- good advice btw.) Once married I sat down with hubby after a six months and explained the fertility prob. He said he loved me anyway and we did fertility drugs. Now that is stress on a marriage and we got through it -- I knew it was a good sign for the future. I had twins, another major stressor, and post partum depression was severe but hubby stuck with me as he DID know about my history of depression from just before we got engaged (I didn't tell hubby of SI at the time because it didn't apply.) Now, seven yrs later I reverted to SI behaviors including a dangerous OD that interfered with simchas torah. Because hubby got through all the other things in stages and our relationship grew stronger because of it, he can handle the SI behaviors he sees now (he doesn't seem to notice the cuts I hide on my arms.) During my pregnancy, I had a hard time and had to take several class c meds (unknown or non established side effects) and he came with me to Boston's Massacheusetts General Hospital perinatal psychiatric evaluation. So waiting till SI behaviors stopped was good move for me. Perhaps I took some risks having family with those behaviors still lurking in the background but not that obvious but I don't regret it.

And finally, having kids changed my perspective on life. Do I still engage in SI behavior? Yes. Do I think twice about SI behaviors? YES. Have I messed up, yes. did it change the marriage? unfortunately, yes but it has also made the marriage stronger. for the worse because it created an unpleasant power shift -- i used to rule the roost, now he slowly is ruling the roost more. it scares me, but may be a positive growing experience in the end regarding our marriage. but at the same time, hubby is standing by me and supporting me while i attend a day hospital. he still loves me and tells me so every time i roll over in the middle of the nite (romantic in some ways, annoying in others -- losing lots of sleep cuz of it).

Does this make any sense? I know it's legnthy but hey, that's my perspective and my life experience. I admit I am not normal but maybe someone can relate


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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gad
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10/24/07 11:07 PM
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Munkster, thank you for sharing your thoughts and your experiences. There is certainly much to learn from it.

Holding on, I think that, as I mentioned before, the main thing is to get yourself in proper health. After that, you can ask a Rav about whether to tell a shiduch, and what to tell. I think that your post also reflects a reluctance to be involved in a shiduch etc. until you feel stronger. You can also ask your Rav or mentor if they agree with all this.

Hope to hear good news.
 
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mouse
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10/24/07 11:51 PM
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i agree 100 % with you. talk to rav about what you need to reveal. but at same time realize that you should wait till you are stronger to get through the first yr of marraiage and having kidsl It is a trying time the first few nites of babies crying (yes, i have twins) but it gets better.. if you do SI hubby may not stick around to see the positive stuff like the kids learning. make sure you are healthy, then look. and if SI rears its ugly head once married it will be a challenge to deal with but will make your bond even stronger and you will have a better support system in place to help you through it. (I hope)

munkster


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All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
 
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