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TOPIC TITLE: I'm doing it again
Created On 7/5/13 1:23 PM
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I'mTrying
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I have these friends who are so amazing to me. they really accept me for who I am, and have never yet told me I'm too much. Even when we decided to set up certain boundries (although I cried uncontrollably all day) they kept reassuring me that the "we're dumping you scenario is all in your head".
So now I am doing that thing again where I feel like I called one time too many and now they are regretting the relationship, they don't want me to come ( I go there every shabbos) It feels like this time I really blew it.

this is not about them. I don't think they are the problem- I am. So when ppl tell me that I should look at my past history with them and see that they have been loyal until now- doesn't work. Bc this is about ME. THIS time I did the thing that just was too much. No matter what the past was, I have no faith in myself for the future.
I know I do the "borderline" push/ pull in relationships. "I hate you don't leave me"- that's me. Most ppl think I'm a wonderful person, a great employee, a dedicated student etc. but when it somes to close relationships (among other things) I am a moron, an idiot a fool.

So now I don't know what to do. How can I assume they want me there for shabbos? (without me asking if they are sure I can come,which I've done 2000 times and probably would be another way of pushing them away...) they also invited me to come with them for visiting day to visit their 13 yr old son on camp. That was last week, b4 I did what i did. I don't know if their son will even want me to come- he used to see me as an older sister but I think the past few months sorta ruined that.

so I'm stuck in my head. I mean my brain is telling me something i in my heart know is true. My therapist and others tell me it's not the truth, but I KNOW it is! I cant seem to convince myself that what I think about my self in relation to others is twisted.

Sorry for this long convoluted spewage. I don't know what to do! I feel so alone.

 
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keep climbing
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(HUGS))))
When I get into that kind of state, I find that the only thing that helps is getting away from where I am physically.
Going somewhere nice--shopping, pizza, garden, bookstore--whatever you like.....When I'm distracted by something nice,usually my mind changes tracks and things look better.
What about calling your therapist? Does that help?
Good Luck!
 
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I'mTrying
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7/5/13 2:14 PM
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I don't know that any of those things will help...
But thank you for taking the time to reply- and I'll definitely take the hugs
Have a peaceful Shabbos.
 
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star
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wish, u sound exactly like me. maybe not exactly but freakishly similar.
i constantly question my close relationships and often reject ppl before they will reject me.
its really really tough. what can i say?
im not sure what thing you are referring to that you did that youre scared might ruin your relationship.
last night i did something im scared to write here for fear of judgement.
but feeling alone is the absolute worst. so i extend my virtual hand to you in the hope that together we can get through this. i am sending you my love and compassion, i hope you can feel it through the wires.
keep us posted please.


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I'mTrying
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Thank you, Star.
you brought tears to my eyes.
I hope we can learn to not judge and forgive ourselves.
 
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star
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sure, i meant it. amen, i need the ultimate forgiveness right now.


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channafofanna
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My heart goes out to both of you!! I know how hard it is to never be sure if your wanted, even if for some rason it seems that someone does want you!!! It is so hard and i wish i had a way to tell you that you can know concretley what others feel. but i cant. im sorry...
Star- you said " last night i did something im scared to write here for fear of judgement.
but feeling alone is the absolute worst. so i extend my virtual hand to you in the hope that together we can get through this. i am sending you my love and compassion, i hope you can feel it through the wires.
keep us posted please."
I wish the same thing back to you that you wished to WishICouldBeNormal. I am sorry that you are scared to post something online, anonmysly, for fear of judgment, in a place where many admit to be suicidal, abused, cutting,self harming, manipulative self absorbed, addicted to porn and do other things we would be judged for horibly in the real world. Scared to post something to your best friends. Becuase even if you dont think of me as a best friend, i think of you as one of mine. So my heart goes out to you that you have something so so so so so so painful to go through, that you cant even tell anyone. The burden must be so hard. ((((((((HUGS)))))))) Please Pm me if there is anything that I can do to help you in any way!
(((((((HUGS))))))))))))) TO all the people on this site who have to endure superhuman suffering and deal with lonliness every single day.
 
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I'mTrying
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Star, hard to believe, but they tell me that Hashem is a lot more forgiving than we are to ourselves.
 
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star
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really? i sure hope so. i spoke to my teacher today and she said what im doing may be like medicine to me even though its not according to halacha. just that it might be hurtful to me in the long run. but i cant deal with the pain now!
basically im in a physical relationship.....please dont post how its bad for me etc, i already got that speech a lot. i am just too lonely to care.


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star
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7/6/13 11:16 PM
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uh oh r u guys speechless now?


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I'mTrying
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I totally get you. And I definitely are NOT gonna tell you how bad it is bc 1. how does any person really know how bad it is for another person? 2. although I haven't been in a physical relationship yet, I have many thoughts and urges that are embarrassing, shameful part of me. I wouldn't want someone telling me how bad it would be if i were acting on them (reason i'm not is bc of my own body issues) 3. the pain that is driving you to do things that are (it seems? correct me if i"m wrong) not consistent with your values is hurtful enough. The judgement and fear of being judged causes terrible suffering.
Hang in there!
((((HUGS)))))
 
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I'mTrying
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BTW that was not an awkward silence it was just me trying to tell you I still respect you without sounding like a moron...
 
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channafofanna
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i second what she said!!! And who am I to tell anyone what to do is bad and what isnt. and im sure u beat urself up enough as it is.... I can identify with that. I often wish I was brave enough to have a physical relationship...
Im just gona break the rules a bit and tell you to be careful - we dont want to see you hurt!!!
 
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I'mTrying
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Ok, now I feel really stupid but just want to clarify.
I don't necessarily think that having a physically intimate relationship with a guy - who obviously is not in it for the long term?- is the healthiest thing emotionally or spiritually.
BUT I do feel that if this is where you are right now (no judgements on my part and i hope not on yours) that you can let it go, without going in circles inside your head as to why you shouldn't, why everyone is judging, why you are so horrible, why God hates you, why you don't deserve it, why u should punish myself etc etc etc. I don't know if this applies to you but I find when I can be less judgmental of myself I do better emotionally and spiritually.

I hope you will find a guy who will love you so much and appreciate all the things we appreciate about you (and more!) and who will want to spend the rest of his life with you
I also hope (and this is for all of us!) that you can start to love yourself, appreciate all the things we appreciate about you and you want to live with your self, in your own body, ad me'ah v'esrim shana!!!
 
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star
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thanks you guys. it means a lot to me that you responded. i feel so gross now. i did things i would never ever imagined i would do. he kinda made me. for a bit it felt good but then he was saying stuff like your breathing too loud etc. so i felt stupid. ( i didnt do IT. btw. thats one thing i want to save for marriage.) i keep washing my hand but it still feels disgusting. in the car i prayed gd if youre there please please get me out of here! i dont want to be doing this! i need to get married!!! i just want to feel wanted but i dont think he even liked my body this time.
i know i sound like such an idiot but please understand i know how much im hurting myself in the long run maybe. but the loneliness is so so so painful now that if i can get someone to want to spend time with me in exchange for using my body, ill do it, im that desperate. and i cant think about the future. if ur in a desert and u have a bottle of water would u drink it all at once or a little every day. if ur REALLY thirsty ull drink it all, u have to.even if it means ull die later.
so i know there might be pain later but i need to do this now, i cant take feeling alone. hes the only one that wants to spend any time with me!i need to feel wanted even on the most basic level. but i feel used and disgusted now. and he keeps telling me dont get too attached im just your toy etc. i know he sounds like such an idiot but hes also nice sometimes. the only way im getting out of this "relationship" is if someone promises me a replacement, a real loving husband right away!


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keep climbing
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((((HUGS))))
First, I think you're really brave for moving out, and going it alone. That's really marvelous!
And all beginnings are hard. They really are, and will get better IYH.
About this guy, I can only say that I'm sure we've all been to "places" that don't make sense to other people, but make perfect sence to us.......
I'm praying for you..........
 
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channafofanna
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(((((HUGS))))
 
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star
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thanks so much guys, for not judging. and for the hugs. it means so much to me.


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channafofanna
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Hey, i attempted murder. Nothings worse than that!! how can I judge you? especialy if i dont know what your gong through!!
(btw, before everyone freaks out, the victim was me, so dont think i go around murdering)
 
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star
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lol u made me smile!!!! actually ones supposed to die rather then be immoral no?
but i guess this is keeping me alive, giving me a reason to live, something to look forward to. but the aftertaste, the guilt is horrible!!! i keep washing my hand but it still feels alien and unclean.wish i could give him up but cant...
im even texting him today to keep him interested in me.....and where im moving will be much closed to him so idk if thats good or bad. maybe im denying myself a chance to get married by doing this???


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channafofanna
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yep, were suposed to be killed rather than have relations, but i dont know the extent of that... cuz if u x do IT then idk....
Thats a decision you have to make for yourself, and if you want any advice or to hear any of our opinions, all u need to do is ask, k?
 
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star
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i did ask advice from two people i trust, who both said it might be like medicine for me.the physical part is very comforting in a way, but i know it would feel so much better if it was with someone who really cared about me, not just my body. so i dont need to feel so guilty.
i guess i just feel more so sad that i have to resort to doing this.


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channafofanna
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what about ur T or PDOC?
 
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star
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yea he said its ok as long as i dont get too attached to the guy and get hurt.


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I'mTrying
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Star, I'm wondering if it's comforting to you to receive a hug from a female friend? That will fulfill the need that you're looking to be filled from this guy. Not a friendly hug, but a real close-I-care-about-you-and-want-to-give-you-strength-from inside-me kind of hug (not in a s**ual way, just a human-touch type of thing)
 
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channafofanna
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ok. i guess ur T knows best.....
 
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star
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it does feel nice from a female friend, but i dont really have too many friends. plus from a guy they really want you and need you so it makes me feel really wanted. thanks though.


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channafofanna
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I definatley can hear that....
 
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star
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thank you.
i looked at myself in the mirror today and thought: who are you?youre a stranger now. youve lost a part of yourself you can never take back. and all i want is to be loved. not for my body, but for me, for my pain, for my loneliness.
just for being. i want to cry from this confusion, from this desperate need to be seen. this isnt fair.
i never wanted this. is this all i deserve? to be used, then put back on the shelf til next time hes bored?
but i cant resist it. because i have such an overwhelming need to be wanted, needed on even the most basic level.
but i want to cry from the loss of innocence. from the aching loneliness that i fear will never ever be filled.
why does it come so easily for other people to find true love, and i have to settle looking for leftovers in the garbage dump. its repulsive but i will do anything to get rid of my hunger, my thirst. help me please.


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channafofanna
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who says other people find true love ? who says theres such a thing as true love? are you maybe looking for the life of a movie? I totaly understand that, but do you know anyone who easily found their true love?
Have you ever tried working with kids, elderly or special needs? I find they love for you, despite all. It helps me a lot. Any chance there are opertunites for you for things like that?
Star, how can I help you? I dont know what to say!! What would you say if I wrote that post?
 
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star
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i dont mean romantic love at all. i mean the love of understanding and acceptance in marriage. i do believe it exists. my doc says it does. i love working with special needs kids, but the organizations in monsey are so complicated to work for, to even get a job, its so stupid.
i would say, i wish i could hug you and take all your pain away. and you deserve all the love in the world. you deserve better. i know right now you need this guy as a crutch but one day soon, someone will love you just the way your are, inside and out. but idk id thats gonna come true, so i cant say that.


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channafofanna
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Ok, so Star-i wish i could hug you and take all your pain away. You really really really deserve all the love in the world. you deserve better. so so so much better. i know right now you need this guy as a crutch but hopefully, one day soon, someone will love you just the way your are, inside and out and teach you how to see how amazing you are.
 
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star
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awwww, ur so sweet! im touched that you took the time to write all that.


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channafofanna
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well... I did have some help from a friend, i just aded a word or two--- =)
 
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star
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I'mTrying
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+1000000 to Channa
 
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channafofanna
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+2000000 to Star, cuz she said it first
 
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I'mTrying
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You're bringing Moshiach !!! (amen)
thanks for the correction.
 
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channafofanna
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???? how does moshiach conect?
 
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I'mTrying
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I forgot the full pasuk but something like "....b'shem omro maivee geulah l'olam" someone help me here...
 
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channafofanna
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haomer davar bshem omro.... (or kol hamevee davar bshem omro.....)

Just wish I knew WHO said that so I could say it in HIS name....
 
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star
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so the guy went on a business trip til tomorrow and hes not answering my texts, i guess hes not ready to take me down off the shelf yet. im just an object.
but i was using him too.
because i crave intimacy!!!!not even s*x cuz i dont know how that feels yet, but just two bodies close together. i just miss that. ok i want it from a man, not a hug from a woman,
thats not enough. now that i tasted it, i am addicted to it. like channa said im type 4 personality, its really true, i crave intimate relationships and most people run from it.
i need to find a normal guy who can give me this, but without the guilt and with the emotional behind the physical which is so much better i hear.
i went out with thirteen guys in the past 7 months and most i arranged myself, each was such effort, and i dont have anymore energy. Gd just has to send him to me.
ok so now i moved to monsey so there are more singles here but im scared to get mixed up with the wrong kind. but i cant take the loneliness. i tried to keep myself busy today shopping and babysitting and friends, but nothing can fill that deep need inside of me to be so closely connected to one person, to have that base.
i need intimacy!!!!


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channafofanna
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how are you doing today Star?
(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))
 
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keep climbing
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((((((HUGS)))))
Oy, star. It's so hard to feel like that.
I really, truly sympathize.
You'll see. The right one will come. Everyone has a zivug.
The only thing we (thousands of singles, including my kids) can do is wait and daven.
 
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star
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thanks guys. might go to a singles hang out tonight. but scared of the girls actually.


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star
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i think i have to acknowledge how hurtful it is to me that the guy isnt texting me back, basically rejecting me in the most subtle way but still.
it means i cant even get someone to like me even for my body. and that hurts a lot.

im jealous of those size two'ers that at least have that if they dont have social skills.

they can get attention like that even short term. but i cant even do that. so im sitting here lonely again. again. and again. someone asked me if im pregnant today again cuz she has a

pregnant cashier so didnt want to hire another one. it wasnt obvious to her i wasnt married,no wig, but it was obvious that my stomach sticks out.humialting. smiled and cried inwardly as i

walked out.she came out to say sorry and i pasted another fake smile on to my credit but sorry im no saint i dont forgive her. s- up all u rightous peeps who care about others olam habas i

cant care even if i wanted to. cuz i am so lonely and hurting.....when will this end Gd? do u want me to become a prostitute in my need for closeness?judge me all you want til ur in my shoes

and ur feet will burn like hell. i cant take this. i have a maybe date next friday but hes probably too frum for me and im picky and dont like his pic really.

maybe ill never be loved. even for my body. because i dont know what else i have to give. even the family im living by said they dont need me to help with the kids today, for free!

that hurts a lot. and now i have to ask if i can stay here for shabbos. im scared they'll say no and where will i go?cant handle living here alone, its so scary....


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channafofanna
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Did you go to the singles hang out? How are you doing?

Yeah, that gotta be hard to think about. (im sure theres a more eloquesnt way of saying that but Ill leave that for someone else to say =) ) People can be disgusting, and its even worse when they pick up on the exact thing that you think you are horrible for as it is!!! Ouch!!!
also just a reminder that guys are jerks. not that that will help you feell better but keep it in mind (sorry to all the guys reading this. I diddnt say it, big Rabbonim have, ex) rabbi Orlofsky- platonic relationships and Rabbi Shapiro on frumteens.com
can you try reading your post over and counting all the things that show how you should give yourself some credit? i counted 6....
((((((HUGS))))))))))

(((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))
 
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star
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aww channa im touched u counted.
so....the guy finally called me and we hung out tonight and i felt really good except he was getting annoyed cuz i told him i told my "rabbi" about him and he made me promise not to say anything else so i lied. but it felt so good just to be held, i crave that so much, even from a guy who has his own interests in mind mostly. i think he has a really low self esteem.


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channafofanna
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and did it help 2 hang out? (u x need to answer, im just not sure what else to say =) but i dont wanna say nothing cuz i wanna show i care..)
 
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star
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thanks channa, yes it did relieve the loneliness bh. now im worried for shabbos to be alone, cuz this family lives far from anyone really.


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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