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TOPIC TITLE: teens going off the derech
Created On 1/12/05 5:15 PM
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willnevergiveup
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1/12/05 5:15 PM
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hELLO
I started this topic beacuse there is an apedemic going on right now with teens at risk more then ever.
i am a mother of a 16 year old boy who was kicked out of a well known yeshiva towords the end of the year.
The reason he was kicked out was not beacuse he was a bad boy behaviar wise or beacuse he was chutzbadik in fact he was a well behaved quiet boy who wouldnt bother a fly. but only beacuse they felt that his hair style was not fitting thier yesh and they wanted to show an egzample to all his class who most of the boys were chalanged kids that they can kick out anyone anytime. by the way 90% of his class did not return to the yeshivah the next year and some are on there way off the derech. There reosoning for throwing him out was that he shouldnt influence other kids. But after they kicked my son out they didnt care what would be with him after that.
Now i have to deal with a child who got burned from all his rebbies and menahalim and is becoming rebalius
all the athoroty figures that he trusted betraiyed him and we have to deal with an angry teen.
Those of you who go through dealing with a chalange teen i dont have to tell you what a horrible time we r going through with him. My son does not want to listen to us anymore all he wants to do is hang out with his friends till 2 3 am in the morning will not listen to cerfew. Doesnt want to wake up in the morning to go to school .Even though we put him in a program spesifcly for kids like him. Doesnt want to doven some tefilos wont wake up to go to shul on shabbas morning. in short as rebalius as can be.
I am getting advice from many rabbonim but i would love to hear from other parents who are going through the same situation with there teens and to learn from them how to cope with it and how to deal with surtain behavial problems.
please join this group and lets try to help each other through these hard times.
 
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downsyndrome
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1/12/05 8:08 PM
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Dear Desperate Heartbroken Mom shetichya:
Hashem should help you; I know this is a tough situation. I have a nephew who is off the derech for quite a number of years. He is already in his mid-twenties and the heartbreak doesn't let up.
You should definitely consult MASK - a support group for parents of teens at risk. Through them you will connect to other parents, mentors, guidance counselors, etc. My heart is with you - hatzlacha.
Sarah S.
 
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shosh860
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1/13/05 8:49 PM
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I agree... MASK has been my lifeline! My 19 yr. old daughter is "off" and has been for quite some time. We have a support group geared to frum parents, but people are embarassed to show their face! My daughter has friends who are also "off", but their parents are very much in denial. Hashem Ya'Azor!
 
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willnevergiveup
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1/14/05 9:47 AM
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I am aware of MASK they are wonderful people and i have been to thier support groups.
Baruch Hashem My son is surounded with caring rabbanim and role models that talk to him and take him out.
Even though everyday is a new challange with him Just when i think he is doing well He goes and does something stupid and takes away all the trust that we have in him.
I am hoping within time he will wake up and realize whats importand in life and become more mature.
One thing i can tell you i will never be or show him that i am imbarassed with him no matter how he lookes .I accualy learned it from a Chassidishe rabbe that i know from israel , One of his children went off the derech and when he came home for shabbas after a long time away from home His father was walking with his son hand in hand on a shabbas afternoon and intrudusing his son to people and not imbarissed even though his son had long hair and wearing jeans and a t-shirt on shabbas.
He wanted to show his son that he loves him no matter what he does and that attitude succeeded to bring his child back to him.
 
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Voos_Noch?
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1/14/05 11:20 AM
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Dear willnevergiveup,

Keep up the atittude, if only all parents of such kids would have this atittude, the epidemic would be wiped out. A lost soul needs a little reassurance and love, if they don't find it at home, they are forced to look for it elsewhere.
 
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Torsalicious613
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11/20/05 7:12 PM
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you know what? you're all right. i am off the derech a bit, if you asked my mom, although my dad would probably not agree. my parents both see me differently, as i have different relationships with each one. my parents are very immature. not to say that i am perfect, far from it actually, and maybe i am a bit immature myself, but one has to wonder where i'm getting it from. we all have problems, but my mom actually came up to me and asked me if she and my dad should get a divorce. i am bipolar, i am 22 now, and was diagnosed at 14. i am on lots and lots of medication. my dad's sister and my mom are feuding because i told my aunt that my mother was physically and mentally and emotionally abusing me (to this day, i do not blame her, but i stand by my assumptions.) anyway, my aunt believed me when i told her my mom hit me for no reason (which she did). at a family chassinah, actually, a wedding (i'm sorry, i must sound really stupid, i am not that religious to begin with, did i mean to say simply a simchah? a chassinah is a wedding, right?)anyway, at this "cahssinah" (yes, i think it's coming back to me, chassinah does mean wedding. 14 years at a hebrew day school and i should know this stuff, right?) my aunt said my parents do not love eachother. she told me not to tell my mom. but i told her. not only did i get my mom mad, but i'm sure she had my father tell my aunt not to say that, thus, my dad found out and so did my aunt that i told my mom the ugly truth. oh, and btw, everybody, after my aunt figured out my mom was "abusing" me (again, my opinion, but i believe it is true, or it was at the time) at another dinner, before the family chassinah, my aunt said to my mom, in front of a whole audience of people with in viewing and earshot, "you bi***, you're holding your kids for ransom." needless to say, this upset my mom terribly, but she kept it inside, something she's very good at (which is probably one reason why she, like my dad, snap so much). now i am all confused and i don't know who's side to believe nor who's side to be on. my mom's? my dad's? my aunt's? my own? life is getting very confusing for me, and although everything came to a head for me 9 years ago, the pain still lingers, and it's eating me up inside. i'm sure this can't be too healthy. from the stress, i've had a number of medical problems. chronic bronchitis, when i was younger, to mood fluctuations, to mania, to depression, to suicidalism, to thyroid imbalances. i'm clear on fed up, and i do not see why i have to take on my family problems and let them ruin my life. they've adversly effected it enough in my opinion, and 9 years is long enough to be imprisoned in an immature abusive family and medications that in my opinion do not work and have horrible side effects and that only make things worse. i want to move out, but they are not letting me, plus my kind and phillanthropic grandfather, the glue in our family, died last year of alzheimer's complications. if there is a g-d, i hope he is listening to my misery, and that he helps me soon. i do not know how much more of this i can take. i'm 22, for g-'s sake, and i feel 99. i want to live my own life, not one entitled "the results of my family's problems." i want them to take responsability, leave me alone, move on, and let me move on with my own life before it is too late for me to.

frustrated, annoyed, and alone,

atara


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what the hecka is a signiature?
 
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lisa11230
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11/20/05 10:00 PM
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Hi Atara

I can see so much pain coming from you and i can understand where u r coming from.
I think that you are right in saying that it is about time that you try to venture on your own. To leave the nest, you are sure old enough and from what it sounds the stress around you is a bit too much.
I think your parents here are the problem they are having a hard time seperating from you,
The only advice i can give you is , if you decide to go ahead and make it on your own, first make sure that you are secure as far as paying your way, that means you need a job so that you can pay for your own apartment and be comfortable. if you are working and are making a desent living now and have maybee some savings of your own that is a good begining.
You have to sit with your parents and tell them , not ask them there advice but let them know , that it is time for you to leave the nest, that you want to start your live from fresh on your own, it doesnt mean that you dont love them , it only means that you feel that you are mature enough to go on your own and you need to do so in order to cure yourself and to grow into the women that you know you can be.
Also tell them that it will help you be a much healthier person, that you dont want to be envolved anymore with whats happening between your parents that is there buisiness and not yours , you want to beezrat hashem get married too but the only way you can do it is if you have your own freedom and be on your own.
let me know what you think.
 
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Torsalicious613
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11/21/05 11:03 AM
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your statements are true, but there is one problem. i have to take my meds. i have a job, but only on fridays, and it only pays $5.15 an hour ('m asking for a raise soon..) the reason why i only have a job on fridays is because i go to college every other day of the week. i am a full time student (18 credits), with little time for making friends out of school or anything else. i don't take my meds on my own, or remember to do my laundry and fold it in a timely manner, remember to make my lunch for the following day, or wake up (each alarm clock i seem to be getting keeps breaking) on my own. i need reminding. so until i can prove to my parents that i can do all these things on my own, on time, i'm stuck at home. i have a trust fund, from my grandfather, alev hashalom, but other than that, i have no money to my name (saved up) because i spend it as soon as i get it. (money nsecurity issues, lack of impulse control, or immaturity, perhaps?..) well, i've got to go soon, class.. the good thing about living in philly is that there's a chabad. they let me come and stay over whenever i want, so maybe i will be spending more time there in the near future, branching out, and meeting other people my age on my own, in my own time. at least my parents aren't opposed to that. thank goodness for that.

atara


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what the hecka is a signiature?
 
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lisa11230
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11/21/05 6:10 PM
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Dear Atara

I understand what you are saying, At least you understand that going out on your own is not as simple as it lookes.
Yes you do need to have a steady salary in order to pay your way , a job once a week is not enough and also you are now in collage wich is great and hopefully you will get a good career going for yourself, you are still young and have alot to look foward to.
So right now leaving home and doing it on your own doesnt seem like a great idea, but you said that you are connected with your local beit chabad, now that is great , chabad are always great people and helpful, parhapes you could talk to one of the Rabbies or counselers over there and get them to help you a bit maybee you can stay over there once or twice a week, sometimes for a shabbat , like this you could get a little brake from the house,'
you seem like an inteligent women why do you have difficulty with remembering to take medicaition, also there are ways you can work on yourself in waking up in the morning.
what i do to help myself sometimes i Make my clock 10 minutes later like this if i have to wake up at 7 i really wake up at 6:50 like this i gain another 10 minutes, try it.
Anyway It sounds like you need a little break from your home and parents and it is a good idea to try to hang out more with friends and do things that you love for yourself,
R u seeng any type of therepist beacuse i think that having someone to talk to and to get good advice wont hurt.
And hopefully when you r ready and feel that you are meture enough one day you should concider trying to meet your bashert falling in love is a great thing ofcourse with the right person, and starting life together with a good partner will be great for you
look luck Atara.
And remember always look at things in the possitive way and always take Hashem as your partner, and if Hashem gives you chalenges in life it means he loves you and he wants your prayers, so talk to him and pour your heart out to Hashem he will listen to you and you will see miracles happening to you garenteed,
 
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Torsalicious613
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11/22/05 12:34 AM
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thank you lisa11230

atara


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what the hecka is a signiature?
 
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Heth
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1/24/06 3:31 PM
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HI there, I just want to say that i can really associalte with what you are saying about your 16 yr old son.
I am so sorry that the yeshiva acted in this way. There should be a rule that yeshivas are not allowed to throw kids out unless they know they ahve somewhere to go.
I have 2 sons age 20 and 15. I also ahve a 10 yr old daughter.
My eldest son left yeshiva as he is dyslexic and just couldnt cope- there is no special school for him. he went to do bagrut and is now doing sherut leumi. he used to be dressed in black and white and is now is jeans and t shirt. ( just giving you the picture )
I know all the feelings that you are experiencing. We have been there. We got lots of " advice" like throw him out of the house etc etc. But the best advice we got was to love , love , love and love some more. keep all channels of communication open at all cost. Because at all cost you want to know how your son is ( emotionally )- you dont want him turning elsewhere to get his needs met.
Like you- he is hurt and he is acting out. Remember clothes are only clothes- hair is only hair, all this can change. But his neshoma needs to heal, and it will do in time.
Dont imagine the worst, stay positive, criticism has no place.
Mybe he needs some " time out " right now. I dont mean that he needs to drop out forever- but just for a little time. CAll it healing time.
I can tell you that we learnt very quickly that our son would only do things in HIS time not in OUR time. When the pressure was off he bagna to relax, calm down and sort himself out.
There were times when i felt so helpless- dont we mothers like to have all the solutions? But i had to learn to hand it over to hashem and just to do our bit.
And BLOW what everyone else thinks, you have to develop an attitude towards that.

I hope this helps you a bit, Hang on in there, heth


-------------------------
Mother of 3 , psychiatric social worker
 
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unexpected
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5/1/06 12:44 AM
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I just want to add to what everyone else said, that Project Y.E.S. in Brooklyn in also a very good place to start. They have a big brother/sister program and also a program for families of children that have lost their way. As others have already stated, the best you can do for your son right now is to love him, no matter what. Unconditional love (without any boundaries--clothing included) are so important to these children. They need to know that at least their parents love them unconditionally.
Atara, I'm so sorry for your frustrations. Perhaps making yourself a list of the things that need improvement, and then making a chart for one thing at a time could work?
For ex. you could make a list of the thing that need improvement and decide to tackle getting up on time first. So you make a chart for a span of 2 weeks, and give yourself checks each time you succeed to get up on time. (Being able to hit the snooze button does help.) Then you give yourself a prize after you've been successful for 2 consecutive weeks. After that, you go on to the next thing on your 'Needs Improvement' list and make a chart for that AND waking up on time. Keep building it up, as time goes on and eventually, you'll have mastered all that you need to move out of the house. If you find yourself experiencing a setback, go back to the previous thing you improved on and start over from there.
HTH!


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If God brought you to it, He'll bring you through it
 
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gad
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5/7/06 10:32 AM
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Unexpected,

Thank you for the idea of making a list and improving one thing at a time etc. I told someone about this, and it is being implemented and has the potential to make a big difference.

 
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unexpected
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5/9/06 1:47 PM
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Quote

Originally posted by: gad
Unexpected,

Thank you for the idea of making a list and improving one thing at a time etc. I told someone about this, and it is being implemented and has the potential to make a big difference.

I'm so happy to hear that! If you need further assistance with such teens, or others in trouble, I'd be glad to help in any way I can. Though unprofessional, I've had much experience and exposure to many things in my lifetime.



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If God brought you to it, He'll bring you through it
 
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willnevergiveup
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5/10/06 1:33 PM
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Hi everyone

its been a while since i posted this topic and alot has gone on since then.
We ended up sending our son to a wonderful Yeshivah in Israel, He is now 17 and did mature a bit, I guess been on his own helped with that, Baruch Hashem he loves Israel and his Yeshivah , His Rabbonim over there are amazing people they understand those kids who are a bit challanging, and give them space to mature and to change for the better on there own. He will be coming back for the summer and will go back to Israel for a second year.
I am a bit concerned about the summer, does anyone have any ideas about where i can go to help him get a summer job. He wants to work and save up money so that he will have extra cash for the year.
will apprieciate any good ideas.
 
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gad
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5/13/06 11:43 PM
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Unexpected, Thank you for the offer. If I need it I can let you know.

Willnevergiveup, Thank you for the good new. I guess you never gave up.
May we continue to hear good news.
 
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gad
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5/16/06 12:49 AM
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Unexpected,

Why is it necessary to finish the task 2 weeks in a row?

If someone succeeds for 10 days for example, and then fails one day, and then succeeds the next four days, wouldn't it be alright to take a prize for that?

Looking forward to your answer. Have a happy Lag B'Omer.
 
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RoNbOnBoO13
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12/17/06 9:07 PM
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i am 20 years old, and when i was about 15 i went off the derech completely. even tho for the following 2 years i was ina jewish school i was sneaking out at night i was drinking, smoking, wearing pants, hanging out with boys, eating not kosher, not keeping shabbta....... anyway then i got involved with ncsy and i wasnt forced into anything. finaly my senior year of highschool came and i decided i wanted to spend a year in israel so i applied to the party seminary. and let me tell u most of the year i partied, why not im 18 in a foriegn country.... but that year thru everything involved in it, inspired me. i came home, and now i only wear skirts. i pretty much keep kosher, although sometimes im not careful to always check for a hashgacha. shabbat is still a struggle for me bc im not used to it, and in america it is very hard. i still talk to my guy friends every now and then but thats it. i still drink but i quit smoking and im trying to quit drinking. its really hard bc ive been drinking so much so often for several years that now im addicted. i wish when i was 15 i had a friend that could help me thru the next 5 years of my life. show me the path, show me all the positive things in judaism instead of me seeing the negative on my own. that might have helped just a lil, and the fact tht my parents were divorced my mom become non religious and my father was and bc of that my father got custody and he abused us so i wanted to run away and i went to my mothers.......


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JAMIE UR AWSOME! TIFFANY U R 1 BRAVE FREAK! GET BACK HER MY BABY MISSES HIS MOMMY! I LOVE U BOTH!!!
 
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ernie55B
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12/17/06 10:28 PM
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Hello R.....

Sounds like you have gone through and are still going through a tough time. I can relate to what you write because I have a daughter who is completely irreligious now and has been into plenty of trouble as well. But I will never give up hope that someday she will come back into the fold. She knows I will always be here for her.
I hope you have someone you can lean on to tell your problems to. Please try to get help for your drinking problem; you could end up killing yourself or someone else G-d forbid.
Please do not despair of ever having a normal healthy life. You are young enough to turn things around and not let a life get wasted.

Keep writing to let us know how you are. We care on this site!!!!

Ernie
 
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kivunulo
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12/17/06 11:07 PM
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ernie i fully agree with you i just wanted to add that chanukah is a very good time to start again because hashem helps one who wants to start again in this great time, (shem mishmuel).
and RoNbOnBoO13 let me tell you DON'T GIVE UP!!!! and you will prevail (hope i spelled it good).

happy chanukah


Edited: 3/9/07 at 3:10 PM by kivunulo
 
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justso
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12/19/08 12:57 AM
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willnevergiveup... your post could have been written by a friend of mine. After the "hair" incident her son when to the local public school. He slept in until late and this continued for a few months. My friend stayed still and davened. He eventually realized that the public school crowd wasn't for him. He took care of the hair thing and went back to yeshiva. He graduated and is in a black hat yeshiva now.

But my friend does still feel that the rabbaim could have handled the hair thing better. he was just experimenting. He's a quiet artsy guy.

I worry about my own young teen daughter. I don't want to squelch her, but guidance and structure is still required. My dh is very strict with her. I'm afraid she is going to rebel. She refuses to go to the local BY, which I understand would not be a good fit for her. So we are going to send her to a more intellectually open school. I know she wants to have interaction with boys and for this reason I will not send her to board. She wants to go away.

I am very involved with her life and baruch hashem we have good communication. There have been a lot of problems in our family life but my dd and I are in therapy. Last year she went away to camp and it was great for her. But I need advice about the boy thing. I was told by a non-frum teacher that she has a strong interest in the boys. The teacher thinks its innocent ( yet she has a reputation from the other girls about this.) Hashem yismoitanu! How do I channel this? She is very mature and worldly for her age and looks older. She hasn't any real contact with boys (no brothers) We are in a yeshivische kind of school and I don't think NCSY would be good for her.

 
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rjh18
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4/16/12 5:39 PM
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Justso,
I am going through the exact same thing with my daughter. If you are sill around I would be interested to know how it turned out.
 
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Malbim
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5/19/15 12:34 PM
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rjh18, how old is ur daughter
 
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