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TOPIC TITLE: Friends?
Created On 6/17/13 11:40 AM
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channafofanna
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6/17/13 11:40 AM
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Ok, so I am a teenager, right? so my my friends are supposed to be my life, right? The only problem is, that I dont have friends. I finaly stoped fooling myself and recognized that I am B"H very popular, outgoing, friendly and fun to be around. But why dont I have friends? People like me, but..
I dont know if this is making any sence, I have tonz of people who im friendly with ,but no friends. As in no one calls me at night or anything unless its for a specific purpose. And I know its not just my curent situation because I havent had a friend since I was in elementary school. And ive been to camp, sem, school etc, and i always have this problem. I used to think I dont have friends because I cant be honest with anyone so I have to keep a barier, and people sence that, but i dont know if that makes sence.
So here is my question- how do i know if im socialy awkward? and its weird to be asking this question at the same time, but I am toatly social, sweet, nice caring, so what can i do to make friends.
Do you get what im asking Dr. Lynn? Anoyone else get it? have any solutions or ideas?
Thanks!!
 
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fattygolucky
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6/23/13 10:37 PM
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i think you might be onto something... i have the same exact thing=you sound exactly like me!
everyone loves to be around me, i'm considered popular and outgoing and fun, but when it comes down to it, nobody calls unless they need something, same with emails and any other sort of contact. but at the same time...
b"H for me though, i did have a best friend in seminary, but it happens to be that she knows everything about me. which is why i think you're right, about people sensing barriers.
but that's just my shnooky old opinion
just letting you know you're not the only one. and that perhaps if you let down some, obviously very carefully and only some, barriers to someone who you can trust, it will help.
b'hatzlacha!!!


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ki ayshayv ba'choshech, Hashem ohr li

...somedays i'm still fighting to walk towards the light
 
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star
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6/23/13 11:11 PM
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my only true friends are the ones i met (literally)thru frumsupport. and i know how lucky i am to have them.


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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I'mTrying
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6/23/13 11:31 PM
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Just curious Star, do you mean you've met up with people from frumsupport? or you mean the anonymous posting?
 
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channafofanna
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6/23/13 11:33 PM
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Go lucky-thanks!! its good to know im not the only nut!!! how do i do it though? how do i let boundries down?
Star- yep, same here... my only friends are cyber friends. you know how they always say watch out from the internet and dont have cyber friends? well i think its more dangerous to be at the bottom of a cliff with a broken neck. know what i mean?
 
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I'mTrying
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LOLOL sorry Channa that line about the broken neck hit my funny bone for some reason! u just can't make this stuff up
I like this anonymous posting, I have had many friends with mental illness, many of same issues as I have, and I have found that at a certain point it would just get WAAAAYYYY too intense for me. Then I would have to figure out how to change the relationship, feel guilty for hurting the other party (esp. bc as a borderline, I know exactly what kind of pain of rejection I am causing!) at the risk of sounding insensitive, I'd rather not have the responsibility... anonymous posting is more simple - although i gotta admit (shamefully) that I have felt insecure many times here, especially if no one responds to my posts...


Edited: 6/23/13 at 11:45 PM by I'mTrying
 
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channafofanna
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6/24/13 9:43 AM
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im glad i made you laugh!!! and I TOTALY hear what you mean. It is to intense sometimes ( B"H i only know from the side of people confiding in me cuz i dont open my mouth, but it definatly can get way to intense!!)
and i feel the same way with no one responding to my posts. I think everyone does. Its like you say something and then it feels like everyone hears you, but ignores you... I dont know if it helps but I always try to reply to peoples posts, but then i get my own insecurity that people think im stalking them or being anoying.... its kinda loose loose...
 
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I'mTrying
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I did notice that you respond to many posts, and usually with supportive and helpful comments. I for one appreciate that, I'm ssure I am speaking (?! for others too.
And I have never once felt annoyed with you
 
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channafofanna
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thanks! I really appreciate that! Especialy since you guys are my only friends, so validation from you guys means my friend like me!!
 
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fattygolucky
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i agree whole heartedly with wishicouldbenormal! i really appreciate your responses!


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ki ayshayv ba'choshech, Hashem ohr li

...somedays i'm still fighting to walk towards the light
 
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channafofanna
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6/25/13 11:53 AM
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thanks!!
 
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channafofanna
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So does anyone have any answers on how I can make friends?
 
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star
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i have the same problem. even the friends i do have, im always scared of them rejecting me.sorry i dont have answers.


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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TBear
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What I have been doing more and more of (slowly) - and it does help little by little.... is try to do more giving to others...

For instance, I contacted the bikur cholim group here and volunteer to help - and tell them ways that I can help (since they usually tell me that I am too busy ) I tell them which days are best, and what items are my "specialties" to cook.....

Also, have talked in therapy about how I can begin going to more of the social stuff; Shabbos Kiddush, women's learning groups, or volunteering to help at the shul, or maybe even inviting people to a Shabbos meal.... It is hard because I have real problems with trust and sometimes with anxiety, and triggers to social situations.... I just want to isolate by the end of the week - but then I am lonely because I never take the time to put myself out there.....

Have also been able to step back a bit and realize that people consider me a friend - maybe not the closest friend, but a friend and would be upset to know I didn't consider them my friend. Think it comes from the idea that if they really knew me they wouldn't like me - but when that is challenged - it does not really stand up to proof..... I am my own worst enemy with this, I have to begin letting people closer just a little at a time - and some will be good friends in the end - and some will not.... at least that is what I have been told

anyway - it is hard for me as well - just telling you what has been suggested for me and I am trying - that seems to be all that is left to do - keep trying
 
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channafofanna
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hmmm. .... thanks. that makes sence.... but i feel like i do give a lot, maybe even to much , and i put myself out there etc
"Have also been able to step back a bit and realize that people consider me a friend - maybe not the closest friend, but a friend and would be upset to know I didn't consider them my friend. Think it comes from the idea that if they really knew me they wouldn't like me - but when that is challenged - it does not really stand up to proof..... I am my own worst enemy with this, I have to begin letting people closer just a little at a time - and some will be good friends in the end - and some will not.... at least that is what I have been told"
So so SOOOOOO true!!!!
Thanks TBear for the tips!!!
 
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I'mTrying
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TBear-
So true. And in the same vein, I have learned to try to step back and see that it's not all about me- meaning, that others do consider me a friend, and by recognizing that and allowing them in , I am giving to them as well. It is so easy for me to get wrapped up in myself and beat myself up for not being a good enuf friend, neighbour, co-worker etc. but when I am in a more rational mind, I can step out of myself and see it's so different from the other's perspective. Sorry for blabbling. I know what I'm trying to say but It's coming out all tangled up
 
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ShtarkeMentch
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TBear -
Your line "Have also been able to step back a bit and realize that people consider me a friend - maybe not the closest friend, but a friend and would be upset to know I didn't consider them my friend." seams to have really resonated with a lot of us.

channafofanna -
You sound very mature for a "teenager". You may want to try (in addition to having friends your own age) making friends with some people a little older than yourself.
(run this by your therapist if you have one. I am just throwing out an idea, and I dont know if its healthy, but I think it would work)
 
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channafofanna
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well, SharkeMentch, sounds can be deciving. I can be very imature so I need to have people on my own wavelength.... But I have alaways hung around and felt more comfortable with older people becuase I know my life robbed me of a lot of my youthfulness, but I give off an imature impression (many people have told me that!) and i look young, so nobody older would want to be my friend, especialy since, what can I do for them?
Also I dont really have a way of meeting "older friends" exept for the people in the nursing home I sometimes volunteer at, but when you said older, i dont think you meant 99 ) But that is a VERY good idea! Thanks so much! (and a very belated "welcome to FS!")
 
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keep climbing
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Channa, do you live in the N.Y. area?
 
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channafofanna
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i pmd u..
 
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ShtarkeMentch
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when I said "Sounds like" I was referring to all of the insightful things you say here on this forum to help people and your caring and compassion.
So that is the true picture of who you are.
when I said older, I meant in their twenties and thirties.

Your impression that nobody older would want to be your friend is just a symptom of the distortion we all face.
It seams to be the most universal symptom of depression which accompanies most of the other personality disorders.
The feeling - in face of all evidence to the contrary - that some person/people would never want to be our friend. That we are somehow not worth loving, that we dont have what to give.
Channa, you are the closest friend to so many people here. when the impressions that you may have given off in the past are stripped away. You have been able to (and have in fact) support people of many different ages, and made people feel that they are truly lucky to have you as a friend.
 
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channafofanna
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yeah, I got that the sounds and older , thanks. I was being sarcastic. You'd think by now I would learn that no one hears the sarcasm, especialy if you forget to put the "lol"...

"Channa, you are the closest friend to so many people here. when the impressions that you may have given off in the past are stripped away. You have been able to (and have in fact) support people of many different ages, and made people feel that they are truly lucky to have you as a friend."

Wow! The depressed me wants to say " LIAR! your just trying to make me feel good and no one really knows the real me and I cant be anyones friend here becuase I dont have acsess to a computer for months at atime and then i sit home all dsy waiting for someone to post on FS so I could reply and if I didnt post then someone else would or theyd get help from a real person......
But theres another half of me is crying because that is one of the most ... i dont even know what things i ever heard. That was really nice and sensitive and wow!!! and i wish u would know what i feel right now. Its the closest Ive come to crying in a long time. I am really very touched. thank you so much.
can I just ask what you meant by "when the impressions that you may have given off in the past are stripped away...."
Thanks so much ShtarkeMentch!
 
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I'mTrying
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I definitely second Shtarkemench's words. Well said!
I am so glad you were able to take that in and feel it, Channa.
 
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channafofanna
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thanks!! Just wish the part of me thats screaming "hes just trying to make you not depressed and so alone" would be quiet...
 
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I'mTrying
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HEHEHE you sound like me well, I generally am a pretty honest person (to a fault), I've been told in therapy groups that I am blunt, say it as it is etc. So if I say it's true, that's what I really mean! and if Shtarkementch is "just trying to make you not depressed and so alone" (which i very highly doubt btw) well, I would want to do that too, to someone who means a lot to me, and has proven herself to be a good, caring, compassionate friend! So either way you are wonderful
 
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I'mTrying
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And please don't feel the pressure at this point to say everything that you don't like about yourself-
I know you have faults, and so do we all! It's part of the human condition
but you have wonderful traits as well. Or in my opinion, even more well. I mean more than the negative traits
 
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channafofanna
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Ok, whatever u say....
You guys can stop buttering me up now- Im fully back to the "everybody hates me ( but not half as much as I hate myself)". So nothing you say makes a difference anyway...All yonc that changes is that if I kill myself Ill have to hire someone to post for me every so often...
But thanks, have a great night everyone...
 
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channafofanna
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Disclaimer: when you posted the post at 1002 i was already typing the one i posted at 1003, so i diddnt see it... sorry... i knw it can be anoying...

Thanks for everything
 
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I'mTrying
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Channa, whatever you say won't change the fact that you mean something special to many people here. Perhaps you can put that in your "back pocket" for when you are feeling more open to the possibility that really you aren't a monster?
((((HUGS))))
 
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ShtarkeMentch
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That is a powerful lesson. (for me at least)
@wishicouldbenormal - seams like our words had the opposite effect. Even though we know that we meant every word. I know I did (I am very much like you in the bluntness and I would definitely never say something nice if it wasn't true). Never the less is had the opposite effect.

I am starting to think that unbridled compliments can be "Avak Loshon Hora".
Halacha tells us that saying something nice about someone in front of someone who doesn't like them can cause the person who heard it to counter with something bad about the person and therefore even the nice thing said is considered avak loshon hora - dust of loshon horah.
We also know that it is just as much loshon horah to say something bad about ourselves (or directly to someone) as it is to say something bad about someone else.
So here comes my "boich svorah" - kishke logic: maybe "buttering someone up" can be avak lashon harah. Especially if their depressed.

channafofanna -
That being said, I did not mean to butter you up. I was trying to make a point about why you might fair better with friends in their twenties and thirties rather than teenagers.

"when the impressions that you may have given off in the past are stripped away...." was referring to what you said "but I give off an imature impression"
Therefore in your community and school setting you feel "held to that standard" everything you do and say is tinted in your own mind by that impression of yourself. But when you joined this forum and were no longer bound by that. You were able to show a very different (deeper) version of yourself.
The hard but now doable goal is to take this person that you know you are, and display it back in the other interactions in your life.
 
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channafofanna
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Thanks WishICouldBeNormal! I will definatley put it in my pocket!! And thanks for the hugs!! need it!!

ShtarkeMentch- it diddnt have the oposite eeffect. Sure it diddnt make me love myself like you hoped it would, but i still felt good for a minute- and as a lot of us here can attest, one minute can be REALLY LONG and can totaly change a life. You two (and many others on FS) are going to get up to shamayim and get ' 3million mitzvah points for making Channa xxxxx happy for a minute" and ul be like "whos that?" and then A malach will show you your frumsupport post... So even if you were talking to WishICouldBeNormal, ShtarkeMentch, I have to disagre. It definatly isnt Avak Loshon Hora in my opinion. Especialy anonmsly online becasue its for the toeles of making someone feel good, and u will never know who the lashon hora is being said about.
And thanks for clarifying!
 
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ShtarkeMentch
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Glad to hear that.

I didn't write it (the first post) to make you feel good. I hate when people say things to make me feel good.
I wrote it because its true.
 
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channafofanna
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ok, thanks! sorry my depressed brain put you through .
Thanks guys!
 
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frumsw
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Just a few thoughts on friendship since I always had a hard time making friends even though I was mature, not too socially awkward, very unconfident, probably nerdy, but still was certainly not popular and loved by all. Now I still have 2 really good friends and 2 more distant ones and lots of acquaintances so I guess that's progress. I've made a few friends when we had a "joint cause"-we were neighbors or were in school together or they needed me and then our relationship changed because the cause wasn't there or there is now distance but we are still friendly and that's ok. I think it helped me over the years as I became more confident and less needy yet able to admit my shortcoming or that I needed help. So if I were too needy I couldn't really make friends because I was way too sensitive plus people stay away from that but if I was pretending that I have my act totally together then people also stay away from that because I'm way too perfect... Similarly, I've noticed that people who are busy putting up a show of being bubbly and positive and totally fun, fun, fun, are not being real or themselves so when people want to be entertained, it's great but when it's time for true friendship, letting your hair down so to speak, that's not the address.
I'd love to make more friends (each of my two good friends aren't able to relate to everything in my life so I have more distant friends for stuff like cooking ideas and my teenage daughters for fashion advice but I think that's ok that one person isn't able to be everything for you) but I'm at a point in life that when I go to a local simcha or even one out of town that my fellow citizens are attending, I have a blast and a million people to talk to which is so different than the way I used to be.

Thanx for allowing me to philosophize about friendship and hope there is maybe something that could be useful.


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frumsw
 
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channafofanna
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it does, thanks FrumSW!!!
 
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wishtobehappy
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Channa, for what it's worth, I think you're a very special person who'll go far in life.
 
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channafofanna
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thanks!
 
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star
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i agree, channa.


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there is light at the end of the tunnel
 
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channafofanna
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thanks
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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So many people had useful things to say here! I am humbled and moved. I think making good friends takes time and shared experiences. I also think it is important to have different kinds of friends. I liked what TBear said about service- when we give to others, it fosters friendship. But OUR willingness to be vulnerable and let others take care of us is also a big part of friendship. Giving is often easier than receiving.
a lynn
 
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channafofanna
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So true!
 
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HopefulMommy
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Yes, I can relate to that too. It's very hard for me to open up and be vulnerable. I'd rather take care of the whole wide world.
 
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channafofanna
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update: I think I may have made a friend in camp..... =)
 
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MoMo
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Wow that's great!!
I'm so happy for you!!
 
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I'mTrying
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Hear, hear!
Good for you!!!
 
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HopefulMommy
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That's great, Channa!
 
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Dr. Lynn, Psy.D.
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Any updates in the friends dept.?
a lynn
 
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channafofanna
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no =(
 
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MoMo
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What happened to the friend you made in camp?
 
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channafofanna
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the relationship started and ended in camp.....
i just need to accept the fact that i cant have friends unti li fix up all my issues....
 
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