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TOPIC TITLE: crazy ravs!!!
Created On 1/13/14 11:35 PM
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star
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1/13/14 11:35 PM
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im sobbing, just called rav **** who everyone said is sensitive to MI and he basically made fun of me and said he doesnt understand what anxiety has to do w not being able to keep hilchos nida, i was crying and said i thought u were good w ppl w MI and he said so now ur accusing me? I CANT BELEIVE THIS!!!i called him back and said thanks to u and my bitter experience i will not be keeping any halacha. WHOEVER WANTS TO JUDGE THIS GO AHEAD BUT U MIGHT TRIP IF U TRY WALKING IN MY SHOES. im done trying to do things the frum way and getting humiliated. IM DONE WITH YIDDISHKEIT.


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growing
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1/14/14 3:23 PM
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I know I now I might be insensitive, and have no right to just come in here and write, and that I don’t know how it feels to be in your shoes and ect...
that being said I still would like to add in my two cents which you could ignore, not read, not listen too.... if you don’t want to.

I had a difficult background and by the time I got married, for the most part had enough with yiddishkeit. I have to admit that I wasn’t so careful with the halacohs when I was a niddah, but the one thing I made sure to be careful with was all the halachos that had to be done to go to the mikvah, even though it made me so so nervouse. When I came out of the mikvah I was always mutar. Now that I have a child I have to tell you that I would have NEVER EVER forgiven myself if I had had him when I wasn’t mutar. It’s one thing if I want to do things that may not be muttar, but to mess things up for my child? Maybe he will believe in this stuff. Even the times I was on birth control, I still was careful, what if that one percent chance I'd get pregnant happens? This is a bit off topic, but I didn’t think I would be so capable having a child, but now that I did I have to tell you that although it’s hard, it was the best thing I've ever done. He is my motivation to work on myself. It’s because of him that I try so hard and I'm were I am now. (I'm not saying there aren’t times when its isn’t warranted to go on birth control - I've been on it myself. just sometimes we don’t realize what we really are capable of, and just focus on the bad and not on the good it could do for us)

Please forgive me if I hurt you in anyway. I know you probably just came here for some empathy. I also hope I didnt sound like some bigshot that I kept that - so many things I didnt keep. I totally agree with you that hilcos nida has everything to do with anxiety and feel that was such an insensitive thing for someone to say.

Mazal Tov on your upcoming marriage.
 
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toy123
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1/14/14 6:31 PM
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I'm sorry growing, but this is your first post and really? Really? This is what you have to say? Do you even know star? Did you take the time to read any of her other posts? Did you get to see how much pain she is in, and this is your response. This could've been sent in a pm not in the open..... I think you were VERY wrong and owe star an apology. You have NO idea what she's going through.

Star I don't know what to say I'm sorry I really am. I wish people were more sympathetic to you and to MI in general....


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Sometimes you need to run away just to see who will follow you.

Sometimes when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to look me in the eyes, hug me tight and say "I know you are not".

Just because I'm smiling doesn't mean I'm happy.
 
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star
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1/14/14 8:35 PM
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thank u toy once again defending me. u might be the only one on this site who rly understands me and that makes me feel a drop less alone. thank u.

growing, some of it was hurtful. but thanks for validating in the last sentence. and u said forgive me so u took the blame off me. everyones always blaming me.

so heres an article i wrote. i actually sent it to the nytimes but they didnt take it.
Facing rejection again and again: I'm done:

I just hung up the phone with a famous Rav, Rav **** in brooklyn whos supposed to be understanding of mental health.
I needed to ask him some very sensitive questions that relate to marriage and how to keep it , suffering from tremendous anxiety. And depression in the past.

He proceeded to humiliate me by saying he didnt understand my problem and when i mentioned i thought he dealt with mental health, he accused me of accusing him. I started crying and he wouldnt even say sorry.

Last year I needed a heter regarding media and called rabbi shusterman in LA who made me feel terrible about the things i need to do to distract from my thoughts. He was impatient to say the least.

I am trying to get through to rabbi nyman from vishnitz but he doesnt get back to me.

I have a therapist but hes more modern so i wanted to find understanding from a higher authority so i can feel im staying frum.

But no. For those of you who might judge and say im passing the blame onto the rabbis, trying standing a minute in my shoes. Someone with tremendous anxiety and depression is someone who has a thousand self criticizing thoughts coming at their brain per minute. No, we cant snap out of it. No, meds are not always the answer. What we need is love and support but thanks to the huge stigma, that is exactly whats so sorely lacking.

So I ask you: where do I turn to be able to stay frum but not feeling I have to die to keep it?

Who do I trust who wont mock my questions and judge my behaviors and choices?

Right now I feel so hurt and resentful that I feel incapable of keeping any halacha. I'm done.

(to the commenters: anyone who is going to blame me or put down this article, can ask themselves: have i ever suffered from severe depression or MI to be able to pass judgement?
I thought not.So please. People with MI will be reading all the comments and the more you hurt, the less they'll feel like staying in the frum world.)

Thank you for printing this article.





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star
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1/15/14 11:34 PM
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so......is everyone here to scared to post cuz im abusive?


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HopefulMommy
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1/16/14 1:33 AM
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Just saw this. (((Hugs))) You know I'm not scared of you, star . I don't know if I have anything helpful to say though. I haven't been able to reach Rabbi Neiman either. Rabbi **** is a Rav, not a therapist. I have spoken to him several times. He's usually very rushed, with people constantly calling on the other line. You can ask him yes/no questions, but don't expect him to take the time to empathize. Anyway, I don't know if this is helpful at all. I do believe that there are rabbis out there who do understand and are able to empathize. I've had my own negative experiences too. But I haven't lost my faith in rabbis yet.

How are the wedding preparations going? And how do you feel about it?
 
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toy123
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Hopeful Mommy I have to agree with you, Star most Rabbi's once you tell them you have a MI they right away say therapy and don't want to deal with the issue at hand. I tried so many rabbonim about a particular issue I was dealing with (obviously not in hilchas nidda and taharas hamishpacha) You won't believe this but I actually contacted a female non-married person who was willing to help me and she did. I'm ever so greatfull......


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Sometimes you need to run away just to see who will follow you.

Sometimes when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to look me in the eyes, hug me tight and say "I know you are not".

Just because I'm smiling doesn't mean I'm happy.
 
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growing
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I agree with u both. I once went to a very famous rav - I’m sure you all heard of him, with my husband. We had a question on whether I could use birth control - we were very nervous about kids. Supposedly he’s supposed to be understanding of these things but instead he kept falling asleep on us - literally!! To be fair, he had to squish us in after a whole day - he really didn’t have time for us, but seriously to mommish fall asleep??? finally we just left. Since then I lost faith in just about anyone who doesn’t have training in MI. Although my husband eventually spoke to Rabbi Reisman who was pretty nice. Maybe try talking to him?

Thanks star for making me feel a little better. i truly did not mean to hurt u. it was just something i felt strongly about so i couldn’t control myself - it wasn’t personal. I hope you forgive me.

Your right toy, i should have wrote it in a pm. i wasn’t thinking. You seem like a really loyal friend to have.
 
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star
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thanks guys. i have an appmt w rabbi neiman motzei shab. but i was so hurt and resesntful of all these rabbanim that i dont feel like keeping any halacha anymore. if halacha doesnt equal emotional wellbeing, then sorry i choose the latter. its just me an Gd now. screw all the messed up ppl who somehow got the title of rav/rebetzin. i am keeping what i can and what i cant- screw that and anyone who tries to coerce me into doing more. even if the little im doing allows room for big 'aveiros'. IM DONE.


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star
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1/18/14 10:28 PM
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ok.....i highly reccomend RAV NYMAN of vishnitz monsey, he was compassionate understanding and non pushy at all. hashem should bless him for keeping me frum. aka the ocd rabbi.


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keep climbing
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I'm so glad it straightened out! Chalk up a point for Chasidim!
 
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HopefulMommy
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That's great! Glad it worked out. Thanks for letting us know - I'll hold on to his number. Do you need some special protektzia to get an appointment?
 
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star
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1/21/14 12:20 AM
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nope just sound desperate


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I'mTrying
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1/23/14 6:29 PM
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wow Star, I'm happy for you that you found a Rav who is understanding- something that from my own experience is very hard to come by.
When is your wedding?
I just got home from israel and I want to tell you and the others here on FS that I prayed at the Kotel that all of you should find peace of mind.
wishing you only good things- an easy transition and happiness.
 
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star
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thanks.it was wednsday. im in a fight now w him cuz i made a fb page for mental illness and i want him to share it and he wont. he has a brother with MI so he doesnt want to be reminded. im so hurt. like hes ashamed of me. u guys can look me up, i made a fake name:tikvah singer and then look at my groups and join anonymously. im gonna try to post something each day to remind ppl to think of ppl suffering. i just want someone to love me for this, for wanting to help ppl instead of walking away from all of u cuz im in a better place so called emotionally. no? im so hurt. we keep having fights and making up and now were having sheva brachos by my sister and my mom didnt even think to come.when my bro just married, she drove hours. how can i not feel hated by my fam-thats rhetorical, gad.btw. im not asking for advice, i know i have to say that explicity. i wish i had more support. can u guys pls support me on this???


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I'mTrying
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1/27/14 7:52 PM
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WE ARE HERE FOR YOU!! That sounds so terribly painful- having your family not give of themselves to you, ESPECIALLY at this time, and specifically your mother... I don't think any child can get used to a mother hurting them. I'm so sorry for your pain.
I think creating a place for people with mental illness is a caring act on your part. I'm gonna look it up iyH. thanks.
I am no expert on relationships (actuallly I am VERY far from it) and I hope i don't come across as giving advice bc thats not what this is meant to be, its just an observation. A wise person once told me that the relationship is not determined by the conflicts but rather the conflicts are opportunities to resolve and strengthen the relationship. I hope your connection gets deeper and deeper with each passing day.
xoxoxox
 
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keep climbing
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1/27/14 8:06 PM
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((((HUGS))) Keep calm, Star. I remember that during my sheva brachos I told my mom that I was not happy with my hubby.....turns out he is the greatest person on earth.... So don't panic!
About him not wanting to be associated with MI, it's painful to you, but people do have different reactions to such things, and give him a chance to do it his way. I think he will come around, just not yet.
Remmber, Star-we love you, and we're here with you always.
 
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HopefulMommy
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1/28/14 11:38 PM
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Mazel tov, star! And amein to what I'mTrying said. I can't even imagine what it's like when a parent doesn't show up for sheva brachos. (((Hugs)))
 
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star
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1/29/14 10:21 AM
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thank u so much.


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star
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thanks guys. but we keep fighting. i feel like another failure at s/t, a wife.

i.e. today he called me from work and pestered me about where my rings r and why im not wearing it, and i told him it makes me anxioous and stop asking me about it and he keeps asking so i explode and then feel guilty, nasty cycle but i cant seem to do in btwn ignoring and screaming. then he bugs me about cars in the driveway like im cheating on him c'v, about my tznius, music etc. after i spent the afternoon cooking dinner and laundry which isnt easy for me. but he wants me to be grateful for him working etc. it goes on and on. it hurts so bad.


were seeing my t tonite but idk if it will help cuz i think he feels threatened by my closeness to my t. but i cant wean off yet.

i never knew marriage would be this hard guys. you warned me but it didnt hit me til now. ok yes id rather be married and fighting then alone and depressed but this is getting to me. im trying not to feel guilty for being a bad wife but its SO HARD! i just want to cry and cry on someones shoulder but i cant cuz hes the person making me cry.
idk whats going on. cud be its my hormones from the bcpills but its HIM starting every fight. and hes very tired from new married physical life etc.....
help. no advice please. just validation and empathy. thanks gys.


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HopefulMommy
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(((Hugs))) They say all beginnings are hard, and marriage is no exception. IY"H it will get easier.
 
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I'mTrying
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1/30/14 10:09 PM
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I wish I could say it'll get easier but I've never been married...
Sending you lots of (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))
We're here with you. You are part of our family.
 
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I'mTrying
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How are you doing, star? Thinking about you..... ((((((((hugs))))))))
 
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star
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thanks guys. sry im in and out. ive been sick for the past couple days, sorry to be open but cramping and stuff and think the bc pills made it worse plus doc was lowering my meds. last nite was hell, i was blacking out from serequol but couldnt fall asleep w the pain. im so scared ill never be able to get off meds. noone told me the long term effects. did anyone here get off meds effectively?


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I'mTrying
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2/3/14 9:13 PM
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oyyyyyy
Wish i could do something to make you feel better!
 
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growing
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I wish there was somthing I could do. All I could say is that I really feel for you, and am thinking of you. Dont know if this helps but I went through some really hard times in the begining as well.
 
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toy123
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Star, sorry you're going through such a rough time. Marriage in the beggining is hard, I really hope you can get through this mess and live happily together... Feel free to pm me anytime you need...


-------------------------
Sometimes you need to run away just to see who will follow you.

Sometimes when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to look me in the eyes, hug me tight and say "I know you are not".

Just because I'm smiling doesn't mean I'm happy.
 
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star
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2/5/14 10:56 PM
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thanks yall.


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star
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thanks everyone.im just so scared we're gonna get divorced and be so ashamed.


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HopefulMommy
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Star, (((hugs))) don't worry about divorce! I don't think it's healthy to think about it at this stage. You just got married. You both made a commitment to each other. Focus on getting to know each other, and do fun things together. Whatever works for both of you that makes you both smile. Good luck!
 
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star
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IM DONE! my husband is an insensitive monster. he told me he needs a t because hes 'getting hurt' and told me i 'lash out' at him. just what i need, criticism for someone i cant escape and share a bed with. we have no space for another. I WANT A DIVORCE. i dont care about the shame. he faked being all sensitive. i told him u have no idea how things hurt me so bad and he claims he does cuz he has a schizo brother. i said i want to die and hes like i know cuz of my bro. so now im not talking to him. and the worse thing is IM BEATING MYSELF UP CUZ OF COURSE ITS ALL MY FAULT. im the crazy one who lashes out. cant handle this. want to die so bad. why wasnt i born in the holocaust so i cud get killed quick. shudve listened to everyone who said marriage just makes it all worse. i hate myself and my freakin husband.


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keep climbing
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((((HUGS))))We're with you star. you are not alone.
DONT beat yourself up! It's NOT your fault that you are emotional and sensitive.
And every change is hard at the beginning, right? It's going to get easier. I promise you.
 
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channafofanna
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oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
((((((((((((HHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSSS)))))))))))))
SO sorry its so hard for you!!!
Just know that even if you hate yourself, we dont hate you!
 
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star
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thanks guys. i decided just not to talk to him at all, so that im not accused of lashing out and hurting him.


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channafofanna
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um.. Im not so sure thats such a good idea, but I guess Im single so Im not one to hand out relaztionship advice.....\((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) x 500!
Sorry youre going through such a rough time!!
 
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star
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thanks. im not trying to be mean. just trying to survive. tnite hes not feeling well so hes taking a break from criticizing me. my problem is that like always i blame myself and not him, i dont believe he could be in the wrong, just me. i think. i havent done emotion exposure in too long. im not saying i want to be single again, that sucks too. just seems that once i fill one hole-i.e. loneliness, another hole opens up- feeling like a failure as a wife. do i ever get to feel happy? what do u guys think? does anyone have a marriage that makes them happy? or something else? i do like the work i do, im taking care of a new mom but the jobs ending soon and im too scared to commit to a long term job for fear of not getting along with the employer and quitting like i did with lots of past jobs. then ill also feel like a failure. how do u guys work and make commitments when u dont know how you'll feel emotionally from one day to the next. do i sound ungrateful? im sorry. i know some of u r probably doing much worse then me and i really feel for you. thats why i made a fb group if anyone wants to pm me for the name of it. anyways thanks for reading, it felt good tp vent.


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channafofanna
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Just one coment on other people doing worse, I saw something that said " Saying you cant be depressed cuz others have it worse is like saying you cant be happy cuz others have it better....
I dont have facebook, but if I did I wud LOVE!! to follow it.
I dont know where you are holding, but sometimes it is the comitments that drag me out of the horible days. I could either stay in bed or I could do something and possibly feel better fro a bit. I think when we HAVE to do something, we can usualy do it, to some degree, no? At least in my experience!!
Oh, and keep venting!!!
 
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I'mTrying
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2/19/14 5:48 PM
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Star?
 
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star
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hi. im here. not talking at all to husband. private hell.


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I'mTrying
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How can I help? I wish I knew what to say. It does sound like hell.
Do you still see a therapist?
 
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channafofanna
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oy...(((((HUGS))))))
 
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star
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sorry hard for me to come her so much anymore. we saw my doc but my husband wont do wat he asks. it all looks l;ike my fault. is this what pulled me thru the hell of depression? im miserable? today he called my employer to say i wasnt talking to him. how humilating.


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keep climbing
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(((HUGS))) Sounds really tough.
Remember, we're all rooting for you.
 
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